tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-49258804305307213.post1800848011206943786..comments2023-08-24T05:24:51.011-04:00Comments on PURE Reform: Analysis of the Pittsburgh PromiseQuestionerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04349071186140766778noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-49258804305307213.post-18628692221377190212011-04-26T08:21:54.913-04:002011-04-26T08:21:54.913-04:00You misunderstand, I only wanted an example of wh...You misunderstand, I only wanted an example of what the writer at April 25, 1:51, thought or was using as a basis for the comment posted. The long comment was so inaccurate in MOST of what it said I wanted to start with a specific correction that would address a specific example of misconception as it was impossible to set all of it right. <br /><br />When I say that I would take more than a day to provide the understanding necessary to enable teachers to act on the information with students, it was not an exaggeration.<br /><br />I might also say, that when that happens, the light goes on, "It makes sense!" for teachers and they insist on additional P.D. The dramatically improved results, as I said 20 to 30 percentage point improvement, can happen very, very quickly and not from "drill and kill" or "teaching to the test" or "test prep" or extended "review" or suffocating "questioning" but by making connections to life and literature (fiction and non-fiction.)<br /><br />I understand that you (collective) want to dismiss the whole notion of PSSA being "thinking skills" that can be taught and embedded, seamlessly, with student understanding and greatly improved test scores on the summative (one test) that is required by NCLB. It seems too, too simple.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-49258804305307213.post-78747092442568640052011-04-26T06:33:36.219-04:002011-04-26T06:33:36.219-04:00OK, then at 3:07 you asked for "just one exam...OK, then at 3:07 you asked for "just one example" and then when examples are sought and discussed, you suggest that the "information, knowledge and experience" of other commentators is too limited to address PSSA testing.Questionerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04349071186140766778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-49258804305307213.post-26808156583492136272011-04-26T00:12:24.862-04:002011-04-26T00:12:24.862-04:00To 11:05 _ NO, PPS refuses all such professional d...To 11:05 _ NO, PPS refuses all such professional development; its not Broad or Gates related.<br /><br />Clearly, the claim by PPS is that they are embedded, but the evidence for this cannot be found and teachers who know deny it. Rather the emphasis is IFL related with "gist" etc.<br /><br />I agree with your conclusions on what is happening with reading. Children, as you say, "despise" what is forced upon them, scripted, questioned to absurdity, and not of relevance or interest, nor selected by them. The PSSA thinking skills are important skills that become a part of a process that children should be enjoying and feeling fulfilled and successful. 4Sight exacerbates the whole problem in PPS and should be terminated post haste.<br /><br />Good teachers know how to teach in ways that children will learn at high levels and enjoy learning.<br />This is not permitted to happen in PPS much to the dismay of ALL.<br /><br />There is much more to say but enough is enough.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-49258804305307213.post-55474345600364544072011-04-25T23:59:14.890-04:002011-04-25T23:59:14.890-04:00Questioner: I did NOT provide any links, since I ...Questioner: I did NOT provide any links, since I believe them to be meaningless in isolation for those with limited information, knowledge and experience. <br /><br />Hmmm. What made you think that I provided the link. Careful not to make assumptions! I am not 3:28! Rather, 2:37, 9:20, 9:42, 10:03, 1:03, 3:07. 3:17, 3:34, 3:49, 9:42, 10:03, 10:50, 1:03, 3:07, 5:27, and 7:56,Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-49258804305307213.post-57008178796036975842011-04-25T23:05:53.947-04:002011-04-25T23:05:53.947-04:00When I do professional development on the issues b...<b> When I do professional development on the issues being discussed here in a very limited way, it takes all day for the presentation and workshop with day to day followup in classrooms on teaching, learning and assessment in the fullest complement of their meaning. </b><br /><br />Are you doing this in the PPS? What is your explanation for the inability of the PPS to show any big gains via years of PDs in these skill areas? <br /><br />You're saying that all of these skills have been embedded all along...and yet, we're not seeing results. Why is that? <br /><br />Do you argue with the contention that a child won't be proficient on a PSSA if they can't read the grade-level passages because their reading skills are several years behind? <br /><br />What I've seen happening over the last 5 or so years is that kids in the district, particularly lower performing kids DESPISE reading. They hate reading because they know they are going to be faced with a barrage of "thinking" questions afterwards. All of the pleasure, fun, and even knowledge to be gained from reading have been systematically drained out of the experience. The worse you score, the more likely this is to happen.<br /><br />I can't tell if you're arguing that the PSSAs are or should be the be all and end all assessment, either. Do you really think they're a delicate assessment instrument?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-49258804305307213.post-62914812369886834832011-04-25T22:59:37.902-04:002011-04-25T22:59:37.902-04:00Anon, at 3:28 you provided a link, then at 7:56 yo...Anon, at 3:28 you provided a link, then at 7:56 you said it was meaningless. <br /><br />The vocabulary questions are an example of qustions that do involve content knowledge and cannot be resolved based solely on "thinking skills."Questionerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04349071186140766778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-49258804305307213.post-52548111759789760852011-04-25T19:56:08.617-04:002011-04-25T19:56:08.617-04:005:39 and 5:44:
Please read 3:34. Do you agree or d...5:39 and 5:44:<br />Please read 3:34. Do you agree or disagree that the skills cited there are "thinking skills"? It should not be about "test prep" or "review" a month before, that was not the message being sent. If the skills cited ( although this is an incomplete list) are embedded in every teaching learning situation across content areas, grade levels, and formatively assessed in daily teacher-student interactions, students will become proficient in the course of (hopefully) normal day to day instruction.<br /><br />To questioner and others: All of what you are finding (googling, etc.) on standards, assessment anchors, glossaries, eligible content, sample questions are MEANINGLESS in isolation. You cannot present a cogent argument for or against PSSA using these terms. When I do professional development on the issues being discussed here in a very limited way, it takes all day for the presentation and workshop with day to day followup in classrooms on teaching, learning and assessment in the fullest complement of their meaning. <br /><br />Please do not attempt to reduce it to very limited interpretation and guessing!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-49258804305307213.post-824514949643136932011-04-25T17:44:25.372-04:002011-04-25T17:44:25.372-04:00Hmmm. When I open Grade 3 Math I see a problem on...Hmmm. When I open Grade 3 Math I see a problem on the second page: "Jake is 47 inches tall, Mike is 39 inches tall...."<br /><br /><br />For the reading, you will have to go to the other link (Google PSSA, take first result I'll put the link below too) -- scroll down to "Reading Resources" and you'll see sample questions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-49258804305307213.post-56681159259153778332011-04-25T17:39:05.170-04:002011-04-25T17:39:05.170-04:00The PSSA is easily mastered. It is a minimum compe...<b> The PSSA is easily mastered. It is a minimum competency test on "thinking" not finding concrete statements of fact in the text.<br /><br />In the schools where I have worked it took only a few months to teach the skill that raised PSSA scores from 20 to 30 percentage points in the first few months of professional development. The rise and fall of a few points each year in PPS is an absolute disgrace. This is doable, but not with the current curriculum and instruction protocols being used in PPS. And they REFUSE to change. </b> <br /><br />What potayto/potahto means is that what you're saying above and what I'm saying are...pretty much the same thing. <br /><br />I AGREE that it's basic/easily mastered/minimum competency (at least to be proficient).<br /><br />I agree that a month of good review can get big gains. <br /><br />However, those things don't go with it being a "thinking" test! These three things together don't compute. <br /><br />Finding inferences is one step from the text. It doesn't require great thought. It does require the ability to READ at grade level. <br /><br />I can also guarantee that those kids you're teaching HAVE heard that word before. They told the teacher the year before that they hadn't heard it either, and the one before that, too. <br /><br />You'll see the same thing in math -- you'll be teaching content that was already covered, but you'll not realize it was covered by the blank looks you get when you ask about it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-49258804305307213.post-34122908765160180682011-04-25T17:27:34.502-04:002011-04-25T17:27:34.502-04:00I have no idea what is meant by "p0-tay-to.&q...I have no idea what is meant by "p0-tay-to." It has absolutely nothing to do with the Standards or PSSA!<br /><br />And,YES, personification is the easiest skill to teach on the PSSA. Every early childhood, pre-k book is full of personification (any animal, object, etc. that takes on the qualities of a human being ie, speaking, acting, doing, feeling etc. is an example of personification). Three-year olds can learn this and DO! However, we have 8th and 11th graders who consistently miss this on a PSSA because no one has TAUGHT them what personification is. Some have never even heard the word!<br /><br />The same is true of "imply" and "infer." Adults do it all of the time, but do they give it a name, probably not. In schools students are very typically taught to skim and scan for answers. Therefore, they do not know that if they are being tested on "inference" that they will not find the answer by skimming and scanning. Make sense??<br /><br />The PSSA is easily mastered. It is a minimum competency test on "thinking" not finding concrete statements of fact in the text.<br /><br />In the schools where I have worked it took only a few months to teach the skill that raised PSSA scores from 20 to 30 percentage points in the first few months of professional development. The rise and fall of a few points each year in PPS is an absolute disgrace. This is doable, but not with the current curriculum and instruction protocols being used in PPS. And they REFUSE to change. <br /><br />A book could be written on this whole topic using PRIMARY sources!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-49258804305307213.post-54909425211172216202011-04-25T17:20:49.577-04:002011-04-25T17:20:49.577-04:00Not finding specific questions, only lists of skil...Not finding specific questions, only lists of skills:<br /><br />ASSESSMENT ANCHOR<br />R8.A.1 Understand fiction appropriate to grade level.<br />ELIGIBLE CONTENT<br />R8.A.1.1 Identify and apply the meaning of vocabulary.<br />R8.A.1.1.1 Identify and/or apply meaning of multiple-meaning words used in text.<br />R8.A.1.1.2 Identify and/or apply a synonym or antonym of a word used in text.<br />Items that measure the Assessment Anchors will relate back to a reading passage. Students may reread the passage to help determine the best answer. See the item sampler for sample items.<br />A single vocabulary question may take two different styles: one that reprints the sentence from the passage or one that refers back to the word in the passage. Every multiple-choice stem on the test will be followed by four options.<br />Reference:<br />1.1.8.E Expand a reading vocabulary by identifying and correctly using idioms and words with literal and figurative meanings.<br />1.1.8.F Understand the meaning of and apply key vocabulary across the various subject areas.Questionerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04349071186140766778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-49258804305307213.post-80767771248027725942011-04-25T17:10:39.345-04:002011-04-25T17:10:39.345-04:00Sorry! Below the glossary section --> grade-le...Sorry! Below the glossary section --> grade-level, then it has plain "assessment anchor" for each grade in either PDF or Word. <br /><br />It has the state standard listed, then on the right at the top the specific skills and below an example or examples.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-49258804305307213.post-40716657326261509932011-04-25T16:14:07.593-04:002011-04-25T16:14:07.593-04:00When you open an "anchor assessment" the...When you open an "anchor assessment" there are no examples of questions, just lists of skills such as:<br /><br />R8.A.1.1 Identify and apply the meaning of vocabulary.Questionerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04349071186140766778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-49258804305307213.post-48415183734484365552011-04-25T16:02:48.968-04:002011-04-25T16:02:48.968-04:00Po-tay-to
Po-tah-to
Do you not think that knowing...Po-tay-to<br />Po-tah-to<br /><br />Do you not think that knowing those terms is a useful skill in taking those tests? That is, children should know what is meant by imply or inference if they are going to successfully answer that question? <br /><br />If personification is a tested concept, do you or do you not think that is teachable? <br /><br />Obviously with reading, any grade-level text containing the needed elements is available to use. The content is the terms and the ability to read at that grade level.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-49258804305307213.post-1847678089907327632011-04-25T16:01:46.567-04:002011-04-25T16:01:46.567-04:00Because they choose not to be held accountable. Th...Because they choose not to be held accountable. There is not need for many reasons.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-49258804305307213.post-60980364984106728192011-04-25T16:00:36.030-04:002011-04-25T16:00:36.030-04:00From that link, you need to pick a grade level and...From that link, you need to pick a grade level and open an "assessment anchor glossary" choosing either PDF or Word format.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-49258804305307213.post-90054937832408197582011-04-25T15:56:09.940-04:002011-04-25T15:56:09.940-04:00Went to the link noted above; do not see any sampl...Went to the link noted above; do not see any sample test questions. It would be helpful to have just one sample test question along with a list of the "thinking skills" tested by that question.<br /><br />If the PSSA is a useful test- why do the private and parochial schools not make use of it?Questionerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04349071186140766778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-49258804305307213.post-8063044388089456322011-04-25T15:49:07.496-04:002011-04-25T15:49:07.496-04:003:28: Yes, the PSSA is assessing State Standards. ...3:28: Yes, the PSSA is assessing State Standards. The Reading State Standards passed into LAW in 1999 are NOT content standards meaning no particular novels or authors are a part of the test. In other words, you could have an African-Centered or completely culturally relevant curriculum and still have your students "ace" the PSSA. The "thinking skills" or "eligible content" can be taught via any fiction or non-fiction content!<br /><br />I am taking a break now and will return if there are further explanations needed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-49258804305307213.post-65749700658522577482011-04-25T15:34:02.227-04:002011-04-25T15:34:02.227-04:00It also might be important to those interested to ...It also might be important to those interested to KNOW that the Reading PSSA is a "text dependent" assessment! <br /><br />That means that ALL answers are contained within the text/article/passage. <br /><br />NO PRIOR KNOWLEDGE IS NECESSARY, except how to THINK and use the thinking skills that allow you to identify, discern, use context clues, summarize, infer, analyze, summarize, sequence, distinguish fact from opinion, conclude based on evidence, identify cause and effect, , make comparisons and contrasts, etc. <br /><br />ALL of these "thinking skills" can be taught situationally and textually, at any grade level in any content area!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-49258804305307213.post-3215157382715728792011-04-25T15:28:28.856-04:002011-04-25T15:28:28.856-04:00These are not grade level skills
I'm not e...<b> These are not grade level skills </b> <br /><br />I'm not even sure what you are talking about are you saying that the PSSA doesn't align with the state standards? Are you saying it doesn't test specific skills/content knowledge? <br /><br />For anyone wanting to know what a PSSA looks like and what skills are "eligible content" at a certain grade level:<br /><br />http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/community/assessment_anchors/7440<br /><br />Each grade tested has a breakdown of the tested concept and a sample question or questions.<br /><br />If you want to see many more questions, google "PSSA" and take the first link -- you'll see sample questions and scoring.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-49258804305307213.post-11640604911552100052011-04-25T15:21:08.429-04:002011-04-25T15:21:08.429-04:001:51:
What are examples of the basic skills that...1:51: <br />What are examples of the basic skills that you state should be tested? Why, if they are basic skills, do the majority of PPS children do so poorly on the PSSA? Are they not being taught the basic skills? If not, why not?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-49258804305307213.post-52630265319932193122011-04-25T15:17:03.611-04:002011-04-25T15:17:03.611-04:001:51: Your post on the content, elements, skills,...1:51: Your post on the content, elements, skills, (or lack thereof), grade levels, ratings, format, etc. reveals a total lack of knowledge about the structure and/or value of the PSSA test. Where did you get this information?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-49258804305307213.post-86561920500508979962011-04-25T15:10:51.133-04:002011-04-25T15:10:51.133-04:00Anon, why don't you kick off the examples by p...Anon, why don't you kick off the examples by providing an example of a question and the "thinking skill" it is assessing?Questionerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04349071186140766778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-49258804305307213.post-34673497087528174772011-04-25T15:07:00.026-04:002011-04-25T15:07:00.026-04:001:51:It would be important to know where you got t...1:51:It would be important to know where you got this information. Clearly, you are very misinformed and that is not meant to critical of your assumptions or perceptions, since they appear to be held by the majority of people. <br /><br />These are not grade level skills and they are not scored in the way that casts doubt and while PPS believes in "prep" that is the worst possible way to address this assessment.<br /><br />There are many statements made in you post that I would certainly agree with if the premise were accurate, but it is difficult to agree when the premise is faulty or flawed.<br /><br />Again, not only does the district (administrators and teachers) need a short course in the construct of the PSSA, but even more importantly would be INFORMED student, parent and community groups. If this could be accomplished, we could then address questions (If some still remained), values, and strategies for mastery of the "thinking skills" which ARE the assessment, contrary to your assertions.<br /><br />Also, let me ask again if anyone who challenges what has been set forth here would provide just one example of a skill that is assessed and why it should be 'dismissed', we could BEGIN to clear up the confusion around PSSA.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-49258804305307213.post-59284961065660381802011-04-25T13:51:54.594-04:002011-04-25T13:51:54.594-04:00There are assessed skills at each level of the PSS...There are assessed skills at each level of the PSSA. There are released tests at each level of the PSSA. <br /><br />These are valuable grade level skills, yes. However, the format of the test and the way they are scored makes them very amenable to "prep" type skills as well. <br /><br />They ask questions in certain ways (and not in others), they rate certain formats of answers more highly than others and that can be taught as well. <br /><br />What I currently see is younger students who think the PSSA is *the* score that tells them what kind of student and thinker they are and that is really not true. It affects how they pay attention and how much value they give to school as a whole. <br /><br />We have a curriculum that doesn't even address hitting the PSSA high points in a logical order or in a way that leaves some time for test prep type activities and review before the test. It is assumed that all the questions and touchy feely learning as a group will translate into understanding the wording of specific items on the PSSA and that's ridiculous. <br /><br />The PSSA tests very few "thinking" skills that are not just test-taking or content issues. None, maybe and honestly, how could it? It tests basic skills -- as it should, but how meaningful is it beyond that? No one test meant for all kids in a grade with a mainly multiple choice format could be much more meaningfulAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com