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Unbelievable- a district that claims to be intensely focused on teacher effectiveness is startled by teacher attendance rates? Attendance is something that is simple and inexpensive to measure and enforce, so why not go for the low hanging fruit BEFORE turning to complicated and expensive "value added" measures?
This is baloney that the district seems startled. Way back when Thompson was new attendance was in the spotlight. I know this has been talked about before many times. Is the startled reaction just a ploy to give the report some importance and validity?
Here we see yet another hit piece on Pittsburgh teachers. I suppose more PPS teachers need to be fired.
The article states that the average PPS teacher is out of the classroom 12 days per year. Then later it goes on to say that 1/4 of that total is due to out-of-classroom meetings and assignments.
Anyone who would classify a meeting day as a missed day is obviously pushing an agenda.
The only fair method here is to compare the average PPS teacher with teachers in other large urban districts.
Teaching in an urban district can be quite rewarding. But it is also very high-stress. And stress can make you sick, absolutely.
"They also pointed out local and state policies - such as the eligibility list and forced placements - that may keep excellent teachers from working with students in high poverty, high minority schools. Instead, NCTQ recommends giving principals the ability to choose who teaches in their buildings."
yep, good idea, then all the principals can hire their friends or the little boy who delivered their newspaper or the nephew of their college roommate or...
Another dumb comment was about receiving professional DeVelopment while teaching! Really? Also as far as Fridays and Mondays- teachers are extremely aware of work that must be covered...between snow days, delays, and testing...this year was rough. Most teachers try to "hang on"-- many wind up taking Friday off when they didn't plan to. Also subs get used up with professiobal develipment. So teachers get more coverages. I had a principal tell me...when we didnt get subs, it mushroomed-- teachers who went days without a prep period,, wound up exhausted by Friday. Also, unlike other mre flexible schedules-- teachers can't. Just go i. Late and make it up or leave early for a dr. Appt. if you have ever done that, please realize teachers can't.
4:18 knows how to push buttons. Real professionals never ger a break: Doctors, lawyers and many more. Real professionals do not get summers off and weeks off during holiday's You remind me like the children you teach. Complain about waht iz expected of you. Grow up but how can you when you do the same script with no intelligence year after year Your students surpass you!
Let's face it, there is a problem! Days off need to be scrutinized more closely. It is the low hanging fruit that easily separates teachers. It is something that needs to be looked at very seriously. Parents should also be monitoring this with their children. Ask your kids about how often they have a substitute. All arguments related to this seem silly to many people.
I am a PPS teacher. I have been lucky/healthy this year and the only days I have missed were for Professional Development and trainings. Before budget cuts these were often held after school or on days when there were no students. They now take us out of the classroom. For Dr. Lane to be startled is startling. As for the suggestion that ideally teachers should receive Professional Development while teaching, none of the P.D.'s or trainings I attended could have been held in a classroom while teaching. They all required that my attention be on activities other than my students at that moment. It would be kind of like instructing someone how to put a car back together at the same time as driving it, on a highway at 65 mph., and by the way arriving at a destination at a specific time. My students deserve my full attention and they know this. Whoever made the suggestion hasn't spent enough (any?) time in a classroom.
10:42 I find it humorous that you compare teachers to doctors and lawyers. You can't compare the salary of a teacher to that of a doctor or a lawyer. Doctors and lawyers don't have to spend their own money to supply students with supplies that parents and the district neglect to supply. Teachers don't get compensated for the countless hours of work done at home daily. Our days off are reflected in our salary. Also, most professionals after years of service get up to 8 weeks vacation time they take throughout the year. Teachers get 10 weeks in the summer not 12 like the public likes to believe.
10:42, spend a week in my classroom at one of the worst schools in the district. Let's see if you can last more than a day (I say you won't) and then come and run your mouth. I've seen everything that can you can imagine happen in and around my schools over the length of my career. Everything. If you can dream it, I've seen it. Everything. I love my students and apparently, they love me. My classroom, like the classrooms of so many other teachers, is a safe haven for many kids, a respite from their horrible lives. And in comparing me to doctors and lawyers, you highlight the problem. I've been running in circles, financially speaking, for the last three contracts. With the cost of living ever increasing, I have lost money in the past decade. I would be glad to show you how, if I cared about what you thought. I have no apologies to you or any other whiner who couldn't carry by shoes as an educator, or as an adult. None. Teachers are not the whipping boys of a public that not only wants their children to be educated, but to be raised, as well. They are not the whipping boys of an administration that had sold its integrity to a billionaire "philanthropist" who has misidentified the culprit in low achieving schools as being the teacher. It strikes me that what is "startling" is this superintendent and administration allowing a computer genius who never had regard for his studies to call the shorts where education reform is concern. Shameful is the only word one can use in this regard. My original offer stands: let's see if your can spend a week in my classroom. I'll just stand and watch you. Let's see what you can do. Then, you can observe both myself, and my colleagues--all of whom are adults who have dedicated themselves to a thankless profession--show you how to inspire, motivate and teach kids.
Maybe you'll learn something when you can move your rear end off of that couch. Till then, I'll count on more inane, ignorant and ridiculous drivel.
I am a PPS teacher, and I thought about responding to 10:42.
But consider 10:42's comment: "Your students surpass you!"
That odd insult doesn't even make sense. It is not grounded in any definition of reality. Perhaps 10:42's bizarre post does deserve a response.
But I'm quite sure your response will have no effect. You are arguing with either a provacateur, or with someone who lives in a fantasy world where all teachers are in league with the devil.
And to the moderator: I am not looking to start any fight here. But 10:42's comments were just too over the top.
10:42 Doctors and lawyers "never get a break"? How do they find time to be on the golf course or tennis courts? I have never been able to gst an appointment with a professional after 4:00, 0r on a weekend. Please send us the names of your doctors, dentist and lawyer.We would love to use their services.
10.42 You are correct .Maybe if teachers wouldn't buy a house they can't afford in the suburbs and live in the city and send their kids to public schools that would save their jobs and not a suburban teachers job.Teachers should only blame themselves not the school district for the cuts.IAm a teacher who cares and i live in the city and send my two kids to a public school and i am proud of my childs school and their teachers and i missed a couple days of work do to PD
What we should be talking about are the issues that impact our students and our schools. Not gripping about summer vacation or where teachers should be required to live. Apparently petty resentment is a more appealing topic. I find a report criticizing teacher attendance that includes professional development hours suspect. The fact that it was included raises questions. What else was included? Sabbaticals for education? Maternity leave? Family bereavement? Those could skew the results. The timing of all this bad teacher press is also suspect. Time to negotiate a new contract. Pps has not done a good job of improving test scores, student achievement, college preparedness, increasing enrollment or creating safe and positive learning environments. All things we actually have data to back up. They are very good at pr though. Teacher attendance is very important. In my experience teachers are frustrated by the amount of classroom time they miss. If they're being pulled too much for professional development lets change the approach. Because they're subject to disciplinary action if they miss too many days I think it unlikely that 12 is the real average. But if there are that many sick days being used addressing it shouldn't be the biggest hurdle we need to clear. Principles can access teacher attendance data and they already have the means to address it. Let's not be sidetracked by purported "watchdog" groups that don't have a word of criticism for a failing district and take gates money. They clearly have an agenda. I for one wonder how much all that professional development is improving things. And since we're worried about lost instructional time how much are we losing to testing?
11:05, I wish your response was printed in the post gazette. A+ schools needs to be exposed for their true agenda. What I don't understand is why our union leaders aren't speaking out publicly against A+ school's reports on PPS. The public had no reason to doubt what A+ schools releases. I doubt the average reader is privy to the supposed impartial watchdog's ties to Gates money. That may make the readers question further reports. God knows Eleanor Chute is not going to expose that. I swear she is on the payroll of Gates, Broads, PPS, or all 3 of the trifecta of evil.
11:53 - You are correct that no one questions A+ data. It might be said to be full of errors. It certainly contradicts the data released by the state. If you ask A+ how they get the data that they publish, they will tell you it is from PDE. HOWEVER, it is not straight from PDE. It is adapted and formulated using variations on multiple reporting formats that do NOT represent what is reported at PDE.
There is no doubt that A+ MUST support PPS or the funding from Gates will be eliminated. A+ fills in a gap that exists in PPS for reporting accurate data. The data bad, really bad, and gets worse every year. Achievement scores have fallen dramatically over the last 6-8 years!
There is absolutely no excuse for the poor education that is sending everyone running out of PPS. The state provides more than anyone could possibly ask for in terms of data for every child, in every grade, in every school, in every district.
If schools use the data provided, they know the discrete skills (by name), the strengths and weaknesses in every subject. With this very specific information provided every year for the last 10-15 years, there is NO EXCUSE for not teaching each and every student the skills they need to think, to problem-solve, to create, and to perform far beyond "proficient" on any test or assessment (which checks progress ONCE every year). The diagnostic information is available, why is it not used to teach children what they need to know to be successful every school year, and in college and careers!
As an "average reader" I stopped paying attention to A+ quite some time ago. They are obliged to put of reports to validate their existence as a watchdog group. The more they produce the more they can add staff and get foundation money.
As for A+ Schools being called out, apparently the PFT sees this "watchdog" group as being more of a PPS and Linda Lane cheerleader forum, if the latest article in the Obama Eagle is any indication. (They've done an incredible series over there. Why isn't the PG?)
Questioner, can you link it. The newest story there, about GPS.
There was a time when we as teachers, had to bring in a note from our doctor when we missed three or more consecutive days. We also had to provide a note when we missed our 7th day in a school year. I made a point to have a note for each and every day I missed. Once, I was called in after missing 6 days. All for doctor visits (physicals, eye exams annual appointment with pulmonologist.) Human resource lady told me this is what personal days are for. She added I could be dismissed for abuse of sick leave. They don't recognize publicly that not all doctors have weekend/evening hours. Try to schedule a stress test or colonoscopy for after work hours. They are insane. Enjoy your life while you are young and healthy. When you become older and in poor health, human resources show they have no "human" in them.
We can't let this horse die!!! There were two letters-to-the editor at the PG on this topic. Sadly there are many parent stakeholders who will only remember the headline of the original article. A+ may have lost its credibility with the skewed report. It would be most interesting to learn how they chose the entity who did the report.
I have not heard this discussed on a talk show or seen or heard a followup story from any news source. The findings reported are so lopsided. Why hasn't the board requested A+ ask that the PD days be backed out of the analysis and an amended report be provided? At the beginning of board meetings students are recognized for special awards that sometimes involve attendance at out-of-town events such as the PJAS event at PSU. How were those days calculated in the analysis since they resulted in the need for a sub as the teacher was out of class? Also if a teacher attended a competition on a weekend did that day get factored in as an additional teacher work day? My guess is no, but many teachers sponsor clubs without compensation. Perhaps teachers should calculate the number of volunteer hours they provide.
9:04 no volunteer hours mean nothing to administration. Classic example happening as we speak are the snow make-up hours. The hours for make-up were set at my school, if you were unable to stay for any of the preset hours you were required to submit a proposal as to how you would make up hours. Many teachers have volunteered for various after school activities for students with no compensation. These activities were after we were told about the make ups. They asked admin if they can count for the payback hours and were rejected. They were told they only have one option for conflict make up hours. Why bother with having teachers submit a proposal???? Teachers were informed that they will be docked pay. Really I for one showed up at work for 2 of those days because they called off so late. I stayed and worked a few hours trying to catch up with the insane paperwork required of us. Paperwork that takes away from my planning time. No wonder teachers are running to work for other districts.
9:04, I agree but the board and A+ schools will never do that. They both WANT to make teachers look bad in the eyes of the public. This makes it easier to gain public support push their anti-teacher agendas such as RISE, TFA, improvement plans and firing of veteran teachers, closing schools, etc. I predict even more misconstrued data designed to bash teachers will be reported in the upcoming months as contract negotiations begin.
25 comments:
Unbelievable- a district that claims to be intensely focused on teacher effectiveness is startled by teacher attendance rates? Attendance is something that is simple and inexpensive to measure and enforce, so why not go for the low hanging fruit BEFORE turning to complicated and expensive "value added" measures?
This is baloney that the district seems startled. Way back when Thompson was new attendance was in the spotlight. I know this has been talked about before many times. Is the startled reaction just a ploy to give the report some importance and validity?
Here we see yet another hit piece on Pittsburgh teachers. I suppose more PPS teachers need to be fired.
The article states that the average PPS teacher is out of the classroom 12 days per year. Then later it goes on to say that 1/4 of that total is due to out-of-classroom meetings and assignments.
Anyone who would classify a meeting day as a missed day is obviously pushing an agenda.
The only fair method here is to compare the average PPS teacher with teachers in other large urban districts.
Teaching in an urban district can be quite rewarding. But it is also very high-stress. And stress can make you sick, absolutely.
From the A+ email
"They also pointed out local and state policies - such as the eligibility list and forced placements - that may keep excellent teachers from working with students in high poverty, high minority schools. Instead, NCTQ recommends giving principals the ability to choose who teaches in their buildings."
yep, good idea, then all the principals can hire their friends or the little boy who delivered their newspaper or the nephew of their college roommate or...
Another dumb comment was about receiving professional
DeVelopment while teaching! Really?
Also as far as Fridays and Mondays- teachers are extremely aware of work that must be covered...between snow days, delays, and testing...this year was rough. Most teachers try to "hang on"-- many wind up taking Friday off when they didn't plan to.
Also subs get used up with professiobal develipment. So teachers get more coverages. I had a principal tell me...when we didnt get subs, it mushroomed-- teachers who went days without a prep period,, wound up exhausted by Friday.
Also, unlike other mre flexible schedules-- teachers can't. Just go i. Late and make it up or leave early for a dr. Appt. if you have ever done that, please realize teachers can't.
4:18 knows how to push buttons. Real professionals never ger a break: Doctors, lawyers and many more. Real professionals do not get summers off and weeks off during holiday's
You remind me like the children you teach. Complain about waht iz expected of you. Grow up but how can you when you do the same script with no intelligence year after year
Your students surpass you!
Let's face it, there is a problem! Days off need to be scrutinized more closely. It is the low hanging fruit that easily separates teachers. It is something that needs to be looked at very seriously. Parents should also be monitoring this with their children. Ask your kids about how often they have a substitute. All arguments related to this seem silly to many people.
it boggles the mind that teachers are held accountable and are criticized for missing school days for professional development.
I am a PPS teacher. I have been lucky/healthy this year and the only days I have missed were for Professional Development and trainings. Before budget cuts these were often held after school or on days when there were no students. They now take us out of the classroom. For Dr. Lane to be startled is startling.
As for the suggestion that ideally teachers should receive Professional Development while teaching, none of the P.D.'s or trainings I attended could have been held in a classroom while teaching. They all required that my attention be on activities other than my students at that moment. It would be kind of like instructing someone how to put a car back together at the same time as driving it, on a highway at 65 mph., and by the way arriving at a destination at a specific time. My students deserve my full attention and they know this. Whoever made the suggestion hasn't spent enough (any?) time in a classroom.
10:42 I find it humorous that you compare teachers to doctors and lawyers. You can't compare the salary of a teacher to that of a doctor or a lawyer. Doctors and lawyers don't have to spend their own money to supply students with supplies that parents and the district neglect to supply. Teachers don't get compensated for the countless hours of work done at home daily. Our days off are reflected in our salary.
Also, most professionals after years of service get up to 8 weeks vacation time they take throughout the year. Teachers get 10 weeks in the summer not 12 like the public likes to believe.
10:42, spend a week in my classroom at one of the worst schools in the district. Let's see if you can last more than a day (I say you won't) and then come and run your mouth.
I've seen everything that can you can imagine happen in and around my schools over the length of my career. Everything. If you can dream it, I've seen it.
Everything.
I love my students and apparently, they love me. My classroom, like the classrooms of so many other teachers, is a safe haven for many kids, a respite from their horrible lives.
And in comparing me to doctors and lawyers, you highlight the problem.
I've been running in circles, financially speaking, for the last three contracts. With the cost of living ever increasing, I have lost money in the past decade. I would be glad to show you how, if I cared about what you thought.
I have no apologies to you or any other whiner who couldn't carry by shoes as an educator, or as an adult.
None.
Teachers are not the whipping boys of a public that not only wants their children to be educated, but to be raised, as well. They are not the whipping boys of an administration that had sold its integrity to a billionaire "philanthropist" who has misidentified the culprit in low achieving schools as being the teacher. It strikes me that what is "startling" is this superintendent and administration allowing a computer genius who never had regard for his studies to call the shorts where education reform is concern. Shameful is the only word one can use in this regard.
My original offer stands: let's see if your can spend a week in my classroom. I'll just stand and watch you. Let's see what you can do. Then, you can observe both myself, and my colleagues--all of whom are adults who have dedicated themselves to a thankless profession--show you how to inspire, motivate and teach kids.
Maybe you'll learn something when you can move your rear end off of that couch. Till then, I'll count on more inane, ignorant and ridiculous drivel.
8:17 PM,
I am a PPS teacher, and I thought about responding to 10:42.
But consider 10:42's comment: "Your students surpass you!"
That odd insult doesn't even make sense. It is not grounded in any definition of reality. Perhaps 10:42's bizarre post does deserve a response.
But I'm quite sure your response will have no effect. You are arguing with either a
provacateur, or with someone who lives in a fantasy world where all teachers are in league with the devil.
And to the moderator: I am not looking to start any fight here. But 10:42's comments were just too over the top.
10:42 Doctors and lawyers "never get a break"? How do they find time to be on the golf course or tennis courts? I have never been able to gst an appointment with a professional after 4:00, 0r on a weekend. Please send us the names of your doctors, dentist and lawyer.We would love to use their services.
10.42 You are correct .Maybe if teachers wouldn't buy a house they can't afford in the suburbs and live in the city and send their kids to public schools that would save their jobs and not a suburban teachers job.Teachers should only blame themselves not the school district for the cuts.IAm a teacher who cares and i live in the city and send my two kids to a public school and i am proud of my childs school and their teachers and i missed a couple days of work do to PD
What we should be talking about are the issues that impact our students and our schools. Not gripping about summer vacation or where teachers should be required to live. Apparently petty resentment is a more appealing topic.
I find a report criticizing teacher attendance that includes professional development hours suspect. The fact that it was included raises questions. What else was included? Sabbaticals for education? Maternity leave? Family bereavement? Those could skew the results.
The timing of all this bad teacher press is also suspect. Time to negotiate a new contract.
Pps has not done a good job of improving test scores, student achievement, college preparedness, increasing enrollment or creating safe and positive learning environments. All things we actually have data to back up.
They are very good at pr though.
Teacher attendance is very important. In my experience teachers are frustrated by the amount of classroom time they miss.
If they're being pulled too much for professional development lets change the approach.
Because they're subject to disciplinary action if they miss too many days I think it unlikely that 12 is the real average. But if there are that many sick days being used addressing it shouldn't be the biggest hurdle we need to clear.
Principles can access teacher attendance data and they already have the means to address it.
Let's not be sidetracked by purported "watchdog" groups that don't have a word of criticism for a failing district and take gates money. They clearly have an agenda.
I for one wonder how much all that professional development is improving things.
And since we're worried about lost instructional time how much are we losing to testing?
11:05, I wish your response was printed in the post gazette. A+ schools needs to be exposed for their true agenda. What I don't understand is why our union leaders aren't speaking out publicly against A+ school's reports on PPS. The public had no reason to doubt what A+ schools releases. I doubt the average reader is privy to the supposed impartial watchdog's ties to Gates money. That may make the readers question further reports. God knows Eleanor Chute is not going to expose that. I swear she is on the payroll of Gates, Broads, PPS, or all 3 of the trifecta of evil.
11:53 - You are correct that no one questions A+ data. It might be said to be full of errors. It certainly contradicts the data released by the state. If you ask A+ how they get the data that they publish, they will tell you it is from PDE. HOWEVER, it is not straight from PDE. It is adapted and formulated using variations on multiple reporting formats that do NOT represent what is reported at PDE.
There is no doubt that A+ MUST support PPS or the funding from Gates will be eliminated. A+ fills in a gap that exists in PPS for reporting accurate data. The data bad, really bad, and gets worse every year. Achievement scores have fallen dramatically over the last 6-8 years!
There is absolutely no excuse for the poor education that is sending everyone running out of PPS. The state provides more than anyone could possibly ask for in terms of data for every child, in every grade, in every school, in every district.
If schools use the data provided, they know the discrete skills (by name), the strengths and weaknesses in every subject. With this very specific information provided every year for the last 10-15 years, there is NO EXCUSE for not teaching each and every student the skills they need to think, to problem-solve, to create, and to perform far beyond "proficient" on any test or assessment (which checks progress ONCE every year). The diagnostic information is available, why is it not used to teach children what they need to know to be successful every school year, and in college and careers!
Other districts do it! Why not Pittsburgh?
As an "average reader" I stopped paying attention to A+ quite some time ago. They are obliged to put of reports to validate their existence as a watchdog group. The more they produce the more they can add staff and get foundation money.
As for A+ Schools being called out, apparently the PFT sees this "watchdog" group as being more of a PPS and Linda Lane cheerleader forum, if the latest article in the Obama Eagle is any indication. (They've done an incredible series over there. Why isn't the PG?)
Questioner, can you link it. The newest story there, about GPS.
There was a time when we as teachers, had to bring in a note from our doctor when we missed three or more consecutive days. We also had to provide a note when we missed our 7th day in a school year. I made a point to have a note for each and every day I missed. Once, I was called in after missing 6 days. All for doctor visits (physicals, eye exams annual appointment with pulmonologist.) Human resource lady told me this is what personal days are for. She added I could be dismissed for abuse of sick leave. They don't recognize publicly that not all doctors have weekend/evening hours. Try to schedule a stress test or colonoscopy for after work hours. They are insane. Enjoy your life while you are young and healthy. When you become older and in poor health, human resources show they have no "human" in them.
We can't let this horse die!!! There were two letters-to-the editor at the PG on this topic. Sadly there are many parent stakeholders who will only remember the headline of the original article. A+ may have lost its credibility with the skewed report. It would be most interesting to learn how they chose the entity who did the report.
I have not heard this discussed on a talk show or seen or heard a followup story from any news source.
The findings reported are so lopsided. Why hasn't the board requested A+ ask that the PD days be backed out of the analysis and an amended report be provided? At the beginning of board meetings students are recognized for special awards that sometimes involve attendance at out-of-town events such as the PJAS event at PSU. How were those days calculated in the analysis since they resulted in the need for a sub as the teacher was out of class? Also if a teacher attended a competition on a weekend did that day get factored in as an additional teacher work day? My guess is no, but many teachers sponsor clubs without compensation. Perhaps teachers should calculate the number of volunteer hours they provide.
9:04 no volunteer hours mean nothing to administration. Classic example happening as we speak are the snow make-up hours. The hours for make-up were set at my school, if you were unable to stay for any of the preset hours you were required to submit a proposal as to how you would make up hours. Many teachers have volunteered for various after school activities for students with no compensation. These activities were after we were told about the make ups. They asked admin if they can count for the payback hours and were rejected. They were told they only have one option for conflict make up hours. Why bother with having teachers submit a proposal???? Teachers were informed that they will be docked pay. Really I for one showed up at work for 2 of those days because they called off so late. I stayed and worked a few hours trying to catch up with the insane paperwork required of us. Paperwork that takes away from my planning time. No wonder teachers are running to work for other districts.
9:04, I agree but the board and A+ schools will never do that. They both WANT to make teachers look bad in the eyes of the public. This makes it easier to gain public support push their anti-teacher agendas such as RISE, TFA, improvement plans and firing of veteran teachers, closing schools, etc. I predict even more misconstrued data designed to bash teachers will be reported in the upcoming months as contract negotiations begin.
Today there is a national story on teacher attendance in urban school districts.
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