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Currently posts containing personal comments or name calling are deleted. For the benefit of our readers posts that are exceedingly repetitious will also be deleted.
Exceedingly repetitious comments will be removed. A clue to when comments are exceedingly repetitous is when a series of posts and responses begin to start with words like "AGAIN..." People have only so much time to spend reading a blog.
What a ridiculous edict. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. People also don't like wallowing through self-serving postings by people who happen to be a part of your group, The Small Circle of Still-Ticked Off Schenley Parents. There's nothing pure about your ideas of reform, madam. Shame.
Loss of a great resource can understandably continue to concern people, probably forever, and issues related to loss of that resource remain relevant. One of the interesting things about the loss of Schenley is the disapproval of so many community members who never attended or sent children to Schenley. In any event, however, the vast majority of posts on this blog have nothing to do with Schenley.
Several other active threads on this blog are evidence of the value of this blog. If not for PureReform where else would so many go to hear all sides. Many of us use this forum to say what we can't say publicly. Thanks to all who share here.
Some comments, ideas, information are worth repeating. Because many of these threads are long, good ideas or important information can get lost in all the posts.
Pure has made contact to get information where many of us are unable to ask for it at all. Never noticed any side-taking here other than looking out for the interest of the students.
Yes, some ideas are definitely worth repeating! This policy is just aimed at excessive repetition, especially repetitious posts that ignore responses and so do not contribute to a real dialogue.
we live in a REPETITIOUS society people always repeat things over and over example they show sometimes the same school board meet REPETITIOUS !!!!!!!!!!! why because you have to see the meeting time it is avaiable for you to see on tv. it is what it is one example
The "new policy" in PPS is a managed and scripted curriculum which does not allow independent thought from teachers and restrains and limits the thinking of students.
Control of thought is the antithesis of "learning" and "education."
Is that what we want for our children? It is important for adults to model good learning and educational practice.
Yes, the deleted posts were repetitious- the same complaints about the moderator that were already made on another thread. Let's get back to educational issues.
Some people call this type of education "socialism" and of course, that's not true. This is simply the propagation of an agenda that comes from people like Gates, Broad and the gang. Did you ever think that people and corporations could simply "spend their ways" into pushing their beliefs upon you and your kids and calling it education? You now have two types of teachers within this system; those who are drones and have accepted this mentality as the way to go, and those who understand that we are teaching kids what to think, and not how to think for themselves. And now, we have Pitt and its institute for learning to devise and oversee curriculum which reinforces the beliefs of the benefactors, and even trains "principals" to walk in lock step and enforce this thinking at the school level. It's not socialistic. It's totalitarian. When I see policies of this nature---policies that squelch individual thinking at the district level and policies which negate the ability to think outside the box, I am naturally reminded of dictatorships. Perhaps it is my own history, but I would hope the powers that be on this site embrace dissent that runs counter to personal thinking. It's a dark day in PPS and I cannot begin to describe how adversely kids are being affected. Roosevelt was a charlatan, a stuffed shirt who was a puppet of big money. He was adept at controlling public perception. The new leadership looks to be much more of the same. Question. Protest. Resist. And protest some more.
It would help us to have specific examples (for example of how kids are being taught what to think rathern than how to think). What is it about the lesson or the questions that has this effect? There should be a way to communicate some of that information while still remaining anonymous.
Questioner, that has been done repeatedly on this site for a couple of years. Have looked over the various curricula available online? Have you truly studied what our kids are being forced to read, for example? Have you then reflected on what they aren't able to read and then asked yourself why? Have you looked over the history/ social studies curriculum? Have you reviewed what our kids are being taught? Have you then reflected upon what is not being studied and then asked yourself why? This is the tip of the iceberg. Volumes can be written in compare and contrast style as described above. At some point in time, it becomes paramount that each stakeholder---parents and teachers--not only review but also reflect and come to conclusions. In an educated, intelligent fashion, one must truly question the agenda of any outfit that is writing curriculum. Are PPS kids getting world class educations, or anything even approaching one? Hardly. Are they being indoctrinated into what some organization or corporation thinks is proper? Most assuredly. The best student is the one who asks questions and questions what he is reading or being told. The most dangerous question to Gates/Broad, Roosevelt and now Lane, is simply, "why"?
3:01 Thank you. I hope that your comments are not "deleted" for any reason. It is critical that "thinking" be encouraged and diverse opinions be respected. Thank you for making several relevant points about "policies that squelch thinking." They are important for this blog and the school district alike.
Anonymous tried to post the following, which did not come through:
Questioner, that has been done repeatedly on this site for a couple of years. Have looked over the various curricula available online? Have you truly studied what our kids are being forced to read, for example? Have you then reflected on what they aren't able to read and then asked yourself why? Have you looked over the history/ social studies curriculum? Have you reviewed what our kids are being taught? Have you then reflected upon what is not being studied and then asked yourself why? This is the tip of the iceberg. Volumes can be written in compare and contrast style as described above. At some point in time, it becomes paramount that each stakeholder---parents and teachers--not only review but also reflect and come to conclusions. In an educated, intelligent fashion, one must truly question the agenda of any outfit that is writing curriculum. Are PPS kids getting world class educations, or anything even approaching one? Hardly. Are they being indoctrinated into what some organization or corporation thinks is proper? Most assuredly. The best student is the one who asks questions and questions what he is reading or being told. The most dangerous question to Gates/Broad, Roosevelt and now Lane, is simply, "why"?
What would most help is the name of a specific book that is being read and a description of the lesson on that particular book; in what way is that lesson telling students what to think?
Teachers on this site have been reiterating the problems of curriculum (probably repetitiously). If teachers were to identify specifics on this site they put themselves at risk.
Please visit the schools and observe or convene teachers for confidential conversations.
Also, revisit the Board Meetings and you will hear repeated references to the "managed" or "scripted" or "core curriculum" which is mandated by the District for all teachers. That was stated that Westinghouse Gender Academies will use that curriculum.
Teachers continue to confirm this. Why would you NOT believe what they are saying?
Agreed, anon, and as stated previously, none of what has requested is necessary from a third party. You're right, it's been addressed repeatedly but it's hiding in plain sight. Visit the departments and check out the curriculum listings. Reflect. Isn't this the way in which someone comes to a personal understanding rather than relying on what someone else says is true?
Discourse and dissent are a part of the education process and teachers need to be at the forefront of such ideas, as well they should.
In an almost comical sense, someone--whether its the IFL or Dr.Lippert--are confusing the process. Their misguided belief that 'talk' is the road to enlightenment discourages teacher input---something I'd say is sinister in nature, and very telling at the same time.
It's a typical ploy of the totalitarian approach; to fool some and placate others.
If curriculum is uniform, presumably dozens of teachers are using the same material; or a teacher can discuss material the teacher is aware of a colleague using. It's not a matter of disbelieving teachers, but rather of having specific examples to give to news reporters, board members, etc.
Questioner, are you joking? Do you really believe that news reporters and board members are going to have an interest? The board sold out long ago. $40 million ensured their capitulation and silence. Please. If you are truly interested in 'pure reform' then do the legwork as described above. Ask your own questions and come to your own conclusions.
Visit the departments and check out the curriculum listings.
I have! And it is not available to parents. It says that you can get there as a guest without registering -- but you can't.
I agree with Questioner -- if every school is using the same curriculum, that is what protects you when posting about it!
From earlier discussions though, I have less of a problem with the books read or the content covered than I do with the METHOD enforced -- that is, a paced, scripted, everyone the same curriculum.
And to clarify -- I do believe that the sames skills and concepts should be taught in the same grades at roughly the same time. But all that means is that the district should have a curriculum that states the content/skills to be covered, in a given order, with some sort of calendar.
PD should be about sharing methods of teaching those concepts and teaching should be about each teacher teaching their own lessons to get those skills/concepts across.
PPS Parent, thanks for the heads up. Why doesn't that surprise me.
As for the anonymity of posting, sorry, but there is safety in numbers. I'd rather have the administrators who travel here---and yes, they do travel here---guess which of the 3000 I am rather than which of the 100 or so. We teach in a time when administrators think it is their duty to browbeat and fire teachers. Amazing.
Disagree with your comments about 'what' is being read. Think of the common theme present in the junior curriculum or senior curriculum for that matter. It's about as balanced as FOX is bringing you the news. Think of how many great works of literature are being read in the burbs but ignored in our district.
Ask yourself why.
Don't even get me started about social studies/civics/history. What an outrage.
Is there a African American history course at your child's school?
Does your child take that course if you have one? If not, why not?
No one course will represent history or social studies from multiple perspectives, and to deny that there are multiple, very legitimate perspectives indicates a narrowness of thinking that we should not tolerate if our children are to be truly educated.
Another "new policy" that is being adopted is "buy in" on the ten (10) individual PA Keystone Exams by the Board and Administration,
Similar to the PPS philosophy that "one size fits all" the Keystone Exams, generally, but in social Studies, particularly, will narrow (or eliminate) all options to teach broadly and widely in ways that promote "thinking" by students.
This adoption means that students will be required to study 'some one person's' determination of what everyone should know to the exclusion of all other possibilities for content. Will PPS have to change its whole Soc.Studies curriculum to match the Keystone Exam? What will it cost to do that systemwide?
This Admin has decided that it's too much work to create their own Exit Exams which is an option provided by the State.
Did parents or taxpayers have input on this critical decision?
There are no asian american; hispanic american; native american; gay american; or womens history courses offered at all in pittsburgh schools. Those perspectives must be presented as part of the general history courses.
There are no asian american; hispanic american; native american; gay american; or womens history courses offered at all in pittsburgh schools. Those perspectives must be presented as part of the general history courses.
Gotta admit that I'm not sure that high school is the time to specialize -- that's what college is for! For every unit differing perspectives and viewpoints should be included -- and compared/contrasted with other time periods or events in history.
Have to admit that the more I meet kids the more I feel like they have NO actual knowledge. I know that the pat answer to that is that they can look anything up on the computer. But you don't look up what you don't even know existed. And you can't think abstractly about something about which you know nothing!
One of the main problems is that the PPS curriculum does not provide opportunities for students to learn to think, to challenge, to compare and contrast, to distinguish fact from opinion, to explore ideas, etc.
And you are right, knowledge acquisition appears to be very limited and will continue to be with a managed, scripted, curriculum that "to hear tell" interests no one.
"There are no asian american; hispanic american; native american; gay american; or womens history courses offered at all in pittsburgh schools. Those perspectives must be presented as part of the general history courses. "
In 197-something I attended a large (3,000 plus) public high school. (medium size city, not wealthy Midwest) We had a lot of choices, China, African, Middle Eastern History and a few more I can't recall were required to take 2 of these sub catagories. Students also were required to take Freshman US History, and Western Civ to meet the minimum to graduate. BTW, I went to the "bad school".
I do not have a child in high school but I am shocked at the lack of social studies and science at the elementary level.
42 comments:
Will ALL repetitious comment be removed?
Exceedingly repetitious comments will be removed. A clue to when comments are exceedingly repetitous is when a series of posts and responses begin to start with words like "AGAIN..." People have only so much time to spend reading a blog.
Great! I know the policy will work well for you.
What a ridiculous edict. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. People also don't like wallowing through self-serving postings by people who happen to be a part of your group, The Small Circle of Still-Ticked Off Schenley Parents.
There's nothing pure about your ideas of reform, madam. Shame.
Loss of a great resource can understandably continue to concern people, probably forever, and issues related to loss of that resource remain relevant. One of the interesting things about the loss of Schenley is the disapproval of so many community members who never attended or sent children to Schenley. In any event, however, the vast majority of posts on this blog have nothing to do with Schenley.
Several other active threads on this blog are evidence of the value of this blog. If not for PureReform where else would so many go to hear all sides. Many of us use this forum to say what we can't say publicly. Thanks to all who share here.
Questioner,
Some comments, ideas, information are worth repeating. Because many of these threads are long, good ideas or important information can get lost in all the posts.
Just something to consider.
Pure has made contact to get information where many of us are unable to ask for it at all. Never noticed any side-taking here other than looking out for the interest of the students.
Yes, some ideas are definitely worth repeating! This policy is just aimed at excessive repetition, especially repetitious posts that ignore responses and so do not contribute to a real dialogue.
we live in a REPETITIOUS society
people always repeat things over and over example they show sometimes the same school board meet REPETITIOUS !!!!!!!!!!! why because you have to see the meeting
time it is avaiable for you to see on tv. it is what it is one example
Were the last two blogs repetitious?
The "new policy" in PPS is a managed and scripted curriculum which does not allow independent thought from teachers and restrains and limits the thinking of students.
Control of thought is the antithesis of "learning" and "education."
Is that what we want for our children? It is important for adults to model good learning and educational practice.
Yes, the deleted posts were repetitious- the same complaints about the moderator that were already made on another thread. Let's get back to educational issues.
Except for 10:33, this whole thread defies the topic and nature of education.
Although, learning is education and we are learning on this thread.
Some people call this type of education "socialism" and of course, that's not true.
This is simply the propagation of an agenda that comes from people like Gates, Broad and the gang. Did you ever think that people and corporations could simply "spend their ways" into pushing their beliefs upon you and your kids and calling it education?
You now have two types of teachers within this system; those who are drones and have accepted this mentality as the way to go, and those who understand that we are teaching kids what to think, and not how to think for themselves.
And now, we have Pitt and its institute for learning to devise and oversee curriculum which reinforces the beliefs of the benefactors, and even trains "principals" to walk in lock step and enforce this thinking at the school level.
It's not socialistic. It's totalitarian.
When I see policies of this nature---policies that squelch individual thinking at the district level and policies which negate the ability to think outside the box, I am naturally reminded of dictatorships.
Perhaps it is my own history, but I would hope the powers that be on this site embrace dissent that runs counter to personal thinking.
It's a dark day in PPS and I cannot begin to describe how adversely kids are being affected. Roosevelt was a charlatan, a stuffed shirt who was a puppet of big money. He was adept at controlling public perception.
The new leadership looks to be much more of the same.
Question. Protest. Resist. And protest some more.
It would help us to have specific examples (for example of how kids are being taught what to think rathern than how to think). What is it about the lesson or the questions that has this effect? There should be a way to communicate some of that information while still remaining anonymous.
Questioner, that has been done repeatedly on this site for a couple of years.
Have looked over the various curricula available online?
Have you truly studied what our kids are being forced to read, for example? Have you then reflected on what they aren't able to read and then asked yourself why?
Have you looked over the history/ social studies curriculum? Have you reviewed what our kids are being taught? Have you then reflected upon what is not being studied and then asked yourself why?
This is the tip of the iceberg.
Volumes can be written in compare and contrast style as described above. At some point in time, it becomes paramount that each stakeholder---parents and teachers--not only review but also reflect and come to conclusions.
In an educated, intelligent fashion, one must truly question the agenda of any outfit that is writing curriculum.
Are PPS kids getting world class educations, or anything even approaching one? Hardly. Are they being indoctrinated into what some organization or corporation thinks is proper? Most assuredly.
The best student is the one who asks questions and questions what he is reading or being told. The most dangerous question to Gates/Broad, Roosevelt and now Lane, is simply, "why"?
3:01
Thank you. I hope that your comments are not "deleted" for any reason. It is critical that "thinking" be encouraged and diverse opinions be respected. Thank you for making several relevant points about "policies that squelch thinking." They are important for this blog and the school district alike.
3:12
Many on-point comments!
"The best student is the one who asks questions and questions what he is reading or being told."
"Managed", "scripted" curriculum, and otherwise controlled venues stifle true learning and educational opportunities.
Continue to contribute on this blog, hopefully without censorship/deletion.
Anonymous tried to post the following, which did not come through:
Questioner, that has been done repeatedly on this site for a couple of years.
Have looked over the various curricula available online?
Have you truly studied what our kids are being forced to read, for example? Have you then reflected on what they aren't able to read and then asked yourself why?
Have you looked over the history/ social studies curriculum? Have you reviewed what our kids are being taught? Have you then reflected upon what is not being studied and then asked yourself why?
This is the tip of the iceberg.
Volumes can be written in compare and contrast style as described above. At some point in time, it becomes paramount that each stakeholder---parents and teachers--not only review but also reflect and come to conclusions.
In an educated, intelligent fashion, one must truly question the agenda of any outfit that is writing curriculum.
Are PPS kids getting world class educations, or anything even approaching one? Hardly. Are they being indoctrinated into what some organization or corporation thinks is proper? Most assuredly.
The best student is the one who asks questions and questions what he is reading or being told. The most dangerous question to Gates/Broad, Roosevelt and now Lane, is simply, "why"?
What would most help is the name of a specific book that is being read and a description of the lesson on that particular book; in what way is that lesson telling students what to think?
Teachers on this site have been reiterating the problems of curriculum (probably repetitiously). If teachers were to identify specifics on this site they put themselves at risk.
Please visit the schools and observe or convene teachers for confidential conversations.
Also, revisit the Board Meetings and you will hear repeated references to the "managed" or "scripted" or "core curriculum" which is mandated by the District for all teachers. That was stated that Westinghouse Gender Academies will use that curriculum.
Teachers continue to confirm this. Why would you NOT believe what they are saying?
Agreed, anon, and as stated previously, none of what has requested is necessary from a third party. You're right, it's been addressed repeatedly but it's hiding in plain sight.
Visit the departments and check out the curriculum listings. Reflect.
Isn't this the way in which someone comes to a personal understanding rather than relying on what someone else says is true?
Discourse and dissent are a part of the education process and teachers need to be at the forefront of such ideas, as well they should.
In an almost comical sense, someone--whether its the IFL or Dr.Lippert--are confusing the process. Their misguided belief that 'talk' is the road to enlightenment discourages teacher input---something I'd say is sinister in nature, and very telling at the same time.
It's a typical ploy of the totalitarian approach; to fool some and placate others.
If curriculum is uniform, presumably dozens of teachers are using the same material; or a teacher can discuss material the teacher is aware of a colleague using. It's not a matter of disbelieving teachers, but rather of having specific examples to give to news reporters, board members, etc.
Questioner, are you joking?
Do you really believe that news reporters and board members are going to have an interest?
The board sold out long ago. $40 million ensured their capitulation and silence.
Please.
If you are truly interested in 'pure reform' then do the legwork as described above. Ask your own questions and come to your own conclusions.
Visit the departments and check out the curriculum listings.
I have! And it is not available to parents. It says that you can get there as a guest without registering -- but you can't.
I agree with Questioner -- if every school is using the same curriculum, that is what protects you when posting about it!
From earlier discussions though, I have less of a problem with the books read or the content covered than I do with the METHOD enforced -- that is, a paced, scripted, everyone the same curriculum.
And to clarify -- I do believe that the sames skills and concepts should be taught in the same grades at roughly the same time. But all that means is that the district should have a curriculum that states the content/skills to be covered, in a given order, with some sort of calendar.
PD should be about sharing methods of teaching those concepts and teaching should be about each teacher teaching their own lessons to get those skills/concepts across.
PPS Parent, thanks for the heads up. Why doesn't that surprise me.
As for the anonymity of posting, sorry, but there is safety in numbers. I'd rather have the administrators who travel here---and yes, they do travel here---guess which of the 3000 I am rather than which of the 100 or so. We teach in a time when administrators think it is their duty to browbeat and fire teachers. Amazing.
Disagree with your comments about 'what' is being read. Think of the common theme present in the junior curriculum or senior curriculum for that matter. It's about as balanced as FOX is bringing you the news. Think of how many great works of literature are being read in the burbs but ignored in our district.
Ask yourself why.
Don't even get me started about social studies/civics/history. What an outrage.
I've been happy with how civics and history have been taught. I don't see any bias, and the history books take a very factual approach.
Is there a African American history course at your child's school?
Does your child take that course if you have one? If not, why not?
No one course will represent history or social studies from multiple perspectives, and to deny that there are multiple, very legitimate perspectives indicates a narrowness of thinking that we should not tolerate if our children are to be truly educated.
An African American history course is not available at my child's grade level, but the readings assigned offer multiple perspectives.
Another "new policy" that is being adopted is "buy in" on the ten (10) individual PA Keystone Exams by the Board and Administration,
Similar to the PPS philosophy that "one size fits all" the Keystone Exams, generally, but in social Studies, particularly, will narrow (or eliminate) all options to teach broadly and widely in ways that promote "thinking" by students.
This adoption means that students will be required to study 'some one person's' determination of what everyone should know to the exclusion of all other possibilities for content. Will PPS have to change its whole Soc.Studies curriculum to match the Keystone Exam? What will it cost to do that systemwide?
This Admin has decided that it's too much work to create their own Exit Exams which is an option provided by the State.
Did parents or taxpayers have input on this critical decision?
There are no asian american; hispanic american; native american; gay american; or womens history courses offered at all in pittsburgh schools. Those perspectives must be presented as part of the general history courses.
There are no asian american; hispanic american; native american; gay american; or womens history courses offered at all in pittsburgh schools. Those perspectives must be presented as part of the general history courses.
Gotta admit that I'm not sure that high school is the time to specialize -- that's what college is for! For every unit differing perspectives and viewpoints should be included -- and compared/contrasted with other time periods or events in history.
Have to admit that the more I meet kids the more I feel like they have NO actual knowledge. I know that the pat answer to that is that they can look anything up on the computer. But you don't look up what you don't even know existed. And you can't think abstractly about something about which you know nothing!
One of the main problems is that the PPS curriculum does not provide opportunities for students to learn to think, to challenge, to compare and contrast, to distinguish fact from opinion, to explore ideas, etc.
And you are right, knowledge acquisition appears to be very limited and will continue to be with a managed, scripted, curriculum that "to hear tell" interests no one.
So what to do?
"But you don't look up what you don't even know existed. And you can't think abstractly about something about which you know nothing!"
Nothing can happen to expand thinking, if curriculum is limited, managed, scripted.
Certainly defies all the most relevant theories on cognitive development and learning!
"There are no asian american; hispanic american; native american; gay american; or womens history courses offered at all in pittsburgh schools. Those perspectives must be presented as part of the general history courses. "
In 197-something I attended a large (3,000 plus) public high school. (medium size city, not wealthy Midwest) We had a lot of choices, China, African, Middle Eastern History and a few more I can't recall were required to take 2 of these sub catagories. Students also were required to take Freshman US History, and Western Civ to meet the minimum to graduate. BTW, I went to the "bad school".
I do not have a child in high school but I am shocked at the lack of social studies and science at the elementary level.
Did PPS ever start the class talked about Comparative Religions?
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