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New start time for high schools proposed for next year: 7:10 AM district-wide. Arrival of students around 6:55 AM. Will supposedly save district $3 million."
Does anyone know of any high school in the country with an arrival time before 7:00 am? This does not seem like a great way to keep enrollment numbers up.
The simplest and most effective way to start addressing the district's efficiency is to walk away from Gates, Broad and TIF. The carrying cost of local match is absurd. Cut 400 teachers and add human capital managers? Really?
The next Superindent - frankly at that point it might be a recovery officer - needs a healthy back to basics commitment.
I'm no conspiracy theorist, just a parent who thinks that the district quest to appear cutting edge has led to unnecessary systems complexity while choking innovation at the school or classroom level.
It is irrational to renew the New Teacher Project contract for recruitment at the same time as cutting massive amounts of staff. This is only one example, but it speaks volumes.
It is equally irrational to double the spend on copiers only to turn around and dramatically slow the frequency of computer hardware replacement.
It was not that long ago that Mr. Lopez pointed out the research on the effect of early start times on high school achievement. I didn't often agree with him, but this is one area the data made sense.
With each passing year the local match on these grant programs grows. At what point do we start to question the guinea-pig bolt-on, flash in the pan approach when it comes at the price of core programming?
Board members who vote yes should agree to move their meetings to 6:55 am to show solidarity. Better yet take public transportation and be there at 6:55!
This superintendent knows it time to go and is just doing any and everything now even if it dont make sense. Its bad business to do this to kids when they already have a hard time getting there on time now.
If anything cut out a day. That will save money all way round.
Anon 8:52: good thing you are a parent and not an employee. The Roosevelt/Lane/Fischetti/Weiss administration sent anyone packing that counseled against this folly.
A 4 day week is an interesting option. If for example students had Wednesdays off, they could have 4 somewhat longer days and then be given work to do independently at home in the middle of the week. It would be good to see all the different options, their cost savings, and research on effects of different schedules on students.
I think it was Keystone Oaks that considered a 4 day week. The transportation operation has been mentioned before. I think it might have been Dr. French and Ted Vassar who were tasked with looking into options to reduce costs. This was mentioned at one of the A+ sponsored community forums on the budget.
Attendance and tardy statistics must be available for the current start times. I always thought the trend would be away from earlier start times since research supports improved learning among high school students who have later start times. Later start times for K-8 are considered a safety risk for that age group.
I know folks are thinking of cost saving-- butvat the moment, late elementary schools end at 3:51plus after school programs--gotta ask if anyone has ever been around little kids-- 6/7 years old late in the day-- honestly their ability to learn is fried by 2:30
That is really going to cut into our AM swim practices. We generally get out of the pool at 7:15 or 7:20 AM. Get in the pool at 6 am or so. Then they have 30-minutes or so to shower, dress and gather self for breakfast and first classes.
Speaking of a 4 day week -- this year as the varsity swim coach I gave the swimmers OFF on WEDNESDAYs. Recovery day. Homework day. Diversity of activity day. Call it what you wish. We had double practices on M, T, Thu and Fri. But WED -- off. Worked fine, as expected. Next year, more Saturdays are needed however.
If there are 6500 high school students and half of them receive bus passes, and bus passes are about $70/mo for 10 month, the total cost of transportation would be $2.6 million; so more information is needed on how changing the schedule would save $3M.
No original thoughts in the A+ Forum or concept paper. The 4 day concept was part of Westinghouse Alumni Association's 40 point plan issued almost one year ago.
Some high schools/students are serviced by yellow buses and the savings might come from one bus doing three routes as opposed to the current two routes per bus. Hypothetically, a bus/driver could do a high school run, a run for a school of K-8 starting at 8:00 and another run for a school with a start time after 9.
So how would 2 drivers doing 3 routes cost less than 3 drivers doing 2 routes?
And wouldn't there be only a very few high school students that needed to be serviced by yellow buses rather than public transportation? If all high school students living more than miles from school could receive bus passes for about $2.6M, yellow buses should not be costing so much that a schedule change allows a $3M saving.
Brashear is NOT serviced by PAT transit. I think kids get shuttled from the junction in yellow buses. The building population will grow with the addition of the Langley kids. Anyone from Langley know how your kids will get to school?
Except there are kids who get to the junction on PAT buses.
I'm sure that the schools don't pay the full price for the PAT passes either, since they are buying in bulk.
Of course managing to get to school at that hour on PAT with further reduced schedules could just be impossible.
Why wouldn't you put elementary kids into the earliest school? The research only shows a benefit for later start times for HS students, as far as I know.
High Schoolers start earliest because they don't want elementary age children waiting for yellow school buses in the dark. Two drivers doing three runs each day is cheaper than three drivers doing two runs because the contract is for the day, not the run. It is cheaper to pay two people than one.
What westinghouse alumni 40 point plan? And please enough with the swim stuff already. Its much bigger than that. How is it that kids will be standing at the bus stop at 5 am to get to Obama from other parts of the city or Allderdice from other parts of the city. Most of these rides are going to take 2 and 3 buses.
Also what about the dangers of walking when its dark. Are we not affraid for the safty of our children? This is just irresponsible and heartless. Who is even proposing this?
Anon 9:59, you said that "two drivers doing three runs each day is cheaper than three drivers doing two runs because the contract is for the day, not the run."
I don't see it as being any cheaper at all. Contracts can and do change.
If the district wants a driver to work longer - three runs, not two - I'm guessing that the district will have to pay that driver more.
Why whould a driver take on an extra run for no additional pay?
Anon 10:10 pm. What are you talking about our high school kids walking to school in the dark .so what..They walk to school in the dark 4 months out of the year anyway nov/march.so don't give me that b.s..Most of our kids walk around thier nieborhoods in the dark after school is out and half probley do not have curfews .so please do not make excuse,s about the time change,if it saves money and jobs let it be
Perry has had an early start time for at least the past 13 years. School starts at 7:10 there. I lived on the East side of town and went to Perry as a student having to catch 2 PAT buses to get there. Stop nannying the kids and make them get to school.
What works for a magnet like Perry may not work for a comprehensive school. What works for a school with 2 lunch shifts like Perry may not work for a school with 3 lunch shifts.
Yes and I rode the bus with you too. But you are not telling them how we would catch a jitney or hitch a ride to town many days cause we were afraid, and that was dangerous as well. Dont forget what happen that one day we had to jump out that car in east liberty. Remember that? Oh I thought so.
Also tell about stelling cars and getting caught and had to go to juvinile court and couldnt go to the prom because of it. Also how many times we skipped or turned around cause it was just too dark or cold, and we were late almost everyday.
And finally it would have been really nice if our home school peabody was decent enough for us to stay close and how we said we would never wish this on our kids and would dream of our parents having a car so they could have taken us to school. Please! Get real have you forgotten where you come from. If Mom were still alive she would be ashame of you.
The description of events by a student brings tears to the eyes. Adults, educated adults are making decisions that are literally destroying young lives. Its all about the money (for adults). It is not about kids or education. PPS is a travesty, a criminal travesty, no less. The conditions created by central office are literally destroying public education in Pittsburgh and thereby the lives of students, teachers, and in communities. Central office appears to blind to the situations they have created and do not or cannot project, conceive, or implement solutions for children. There is absolutely no evidence that they have the desire, intelligence, experience, or skills to move out of the dilemmas that they have created for our city's children, parents, and communities.
29 comments:
Does anyone know of any high school in the country with an arrival time before 7:00 am? This does not seem like a great way to keep enrollment numbers up.
The simplest and most effective way to start addressing the district's efficiency is to walk away from Gates, Broad and TIF. The carrying cost of local match is absurd. Cut 400 teachers and add human capital managers? Really?
The next Superindent - frankly at that point it might be a recovery officer - needs a healthy back to basics commitment.
I'm no conspiracy theorist, just a parent who thinks that the district quest to appear cutting edge has led to unnecessary systems complexity while choking innovation at the school or classroom level.
It is irrational to renew the New Teacher Project contract for recruitment at the same time as cutting massive amounts of staff. This is only one example, but it speaks volumes.
It is equally irrational to double the spend on copiers only to turn around and dramatically slow the frequency of computer hardware replacement.
It was not that long ago that Mr. Lopez pointed out the research on the effect of early start times on high school achievement. I didn't often agree with him, but this is one area the data made sense.
With each passing year the local match on these grant programs grows. At what point do we start to question the guinea-pig bolt-on, flash in the pan approach when it comes at the price of core programming?
Board members who vote yes should agree to move their meetings to 6:55 am to show solidarity. Better yet take public transportation and be there at 6:55!
This superintendent knows it time to go and is just doing any and everything now even if it dont make sense. Its bad business to do this to kids when they already have a hard time getting there on time now.
If anything cut out a day. That will save money all way round.
Anon 8:52: good thing you are a parent and not an employee. The Roosevelt/Lane/Fischetti/Weiss administration sent anyone packing that counseled against this folly.
A 4 day week is an interesting option. If for example students had Wednesdays off, they could have 4 somewhat longer days and then be given work to do independently at home in the middle of the week. It would be good to see all the different options, their cost savings, and research on effects of different schedules on students.
I think it was Keystone Oaks that considered a 4 day week. The transportation operation has been mentioned before. I think it might have been Dr. French and Ted Vassar who were tasked with looking into options to reduce costs. This was mentioned at one of the A+ sponsored community forums on the budget.
Attendance and tardy statistics must be available for the current start times. I always thought the trend would be away from earlier start times since research supports improved learning among high school students who have later start times. Later start times for K-8 are considered a safety risk for that age group.
I know folks are thinking of cost saving-- butvat the moment, late elementary schools end at 3:51plus after school programs--gotta ask if anyone has ever been around little kids-- 6/7 years old late in the day-- honestly their ability to learn is fried by 2:30
That is really going to cut into our AM swim practices. We generally get out of the pool at 7:15 or 7:20 AM. Get in the pool at 6 am or so. Then they have 30-minutes or so to shower, dress and gather self for breakfast and first classes.
Bus schedules rule the day. Tail wags the dog.
Speaking of a 4 day week -- this year as the varsity swim coach I gave the swimmers OFF on WEDNESDAYs. Recovery day. Homework day. Diversity of activity day. Call it what you wish. We had double practices on M, T, Thu and Fri. But WED -- off. Worked fine, as expected. Next year, more Saturdays are needed however.
If there are 6500 high school students and half of them receive bus passes, and bus passes are about $70/mo for 10 month, the total cost of transportation would be $2.6 million; so more information is needed on how changing the schedule would save $3M.
No original thoughts in the A+ Forum or concept paper. The 4 day concept was part of Westinghouse Alumni Association's 40 point plan issued almost one year ago.
Some high schools/students are serviced by yellow buses and the savings might come from one bus doing three routes as opposed to the current two routes per bus. Hypothetically, a bus/driver could do a high school run, a run for a school of K-8 starting at 8:00 and another run for a school with a start time after 9.
So how would 2 drivers doing 3 routes cost less than 3 drivers doing 2 routes?
And wouldn't there be only a very few high school students that needed to be serviced by yellow buses rather than public transportation? If all high school students living more than miles from school could receive bus passes for about $2.6M, yellow buses should not be costing so much that a schedule change allows a $3M saving.
Brashear is NOT serviced by PAT transit. I think kids get shuttled from the junction in yellow buses. The building population will grow with the addition of the Langley kids. Anyone from Langley know how your kids will get to school?
Except there are kids who get to the junction on PAT buses.
I'm sure that the schools don't pay the full price for the PAT passes either, since they are buying in bulk.
Of course managing to get to school at that hour on PAT with further reduced schedules could just be impossible.
Why wouldn't you put elementary kids into the earliest school? The research only shows a benefit for later start times for HS students, as far as I know.
High Schoolers start earliest because they don't want elementary age children waiting for yellow school buses in the dark.
Two drivers doing three runs each day is cheaper than three drivers doing two runs because the contract is for the day, not the run. It is cheaper to pay two people than one.
What westinghouse alumni 40 point plan? And please enough with the swim stuff already. Its much bigger than that. How is it that kids will be standing at the bus stop at 5 am to get to Obama from other parts of the city or Allderdice from other parts of the city. Most of these rides are going to take 2 and 3 buses.
Also what about the dangers of walking when its dark. Are we not affraid for the safty of our children? This is just irresponsible and heartless. Who is even proposing this?
Anon 9:59, you said that "two drivers doing three runs each day is cheaper than three drivers doing two runs because the contract is for the day, not the run."
I don't see it as being any cheaper at all. Contracts can and do change.
If the district wants a driver to work longer - three runs, not two - I'm guessing that the district will have to pay that driver more.
Why whould a driver take on an extra run for no additional pay?
PPS does not operate its own transportation system and does not pay drivers. It uses several companies and they pay drivers.
I will sound like a cranky old man now. Far too many of our neighborhoods do not even have sidewalks on some of the streets. And city steps? Oi!!
Anon 10:10 pm. What are you talking about our high school kids walking to school in the dark .so what..They walk to school in the dark 4 months out of the year anyway nov/march.so don't give me that b.s..Most of our kids walk around thier nieborhoods in the dark after school is out and half probley do not have curfews .so please do not make excuse,s about the time change,if it saves money and jobs let it be
Absent and tardy increases are sure to occur with a very early start for HS kids, IMHO.
Cyber charter schools become more attractive to some as well.
Perry has had an early start time for at least the past 13 years. School starts at 7:10 there. I lived on the East side of town and went to Perry as a student having to catch 2 PAT buses to get there. Stop nannying the kids and make them get to school.
What works for a magnet like Perry may not work for a comprehensive school. What works for a school with 2 lunch shifts like Perry may not work for a school with 3 lunch shifts.
Yes and I rode the bus with you too. But you are not telling them how we would catch a jitney or hitch a ride to town many days cause we were afraid, and that was dangerous as well. Dont forget what happen that one day we had to jump out that car in east liberty. Remember that? Oh I thought so.
Also tell about stelling cars and getting caught and had to go to juvinile court and couldnt go to the prom because of it. Also how many times we skipped or turned around cause it was just too dark or cold, and we were late almost everyday.
And finally it would have been really nice if our home school peabody was decent enough for us to stay close and how we said we would never wish this on our kids and would dream of our parents having a car so they could have taken us to school. Please! Get real have you forgotten where you come from. If Mom were still alive she would be ashame of you.
Wow!
The description of events by a student brings tears to the eyes. Adults, educated adults are making decisions that are literally destroying young lives. Its all about the money (for adults). It is not about kids or education. PPS is a travesty, a criminal travesty, no less. The conditions created by central office are literally destroying public education in Pittsburgh and thereby the lives of students, teachers, and in communities. Central office appears to blind to the situations they have created and do not or cannot project, conceive, or implement solutions for children. There is absolutely no evidence that they have the desire, intelligence, experience, or skills to move out of the dilemmas that they have created for our city's children, parents, and communities.
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