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If that is true it would be very unfair to existing and incoming high school students who relied on CAS in deciding whether to go to a Pgh public high school.
If that is true, there will be continued flight from PPS to charter and private schools, or out of the district altogether. What moron dreams of such a thing? This district can't afford to lose any more academic achievers, especially in a time when grades are being inflated so the inferior or apathetic can become a part of the Pittsburgh Promise, a program that still is misunderstood by the masses and the only thing a political hack like Roosevelt can rest his hat upon.
How on earth do these rumors get started? Certainly CAS at the high school level, not to be confused with gifted education below grade 9, is unique to PPS in the eyes of the PDE. Does eveyone "get" the distinctions? Rather than speculate, we posters should be going to our school's PSCC meetings and asking the questions. You do not have to be a parent to attend. The first C represents COMMUNITY.
What is happening at elementaries is different- they are trying out a plan for moving gifted education back to each individual school. Which may be unfortunate because at some schools, depending on size, there might be only one or two students in a grade level who are highly gited and they will not have the opportunity to interact with other similar students.
Setting aside for the time being the claim that it is a wild rumor, does CAS fit into the plans of the designer high school concept? Will it make sense to have separate CAS classes in a full IB school? How many high schools in the state have separate gifted programs at the high school level and how many use AP and honors classes to fulfill the state requirements for gifted education? And by the way, I do attend PSCC meetings.
AP classes aren't generally available until 11th grade, so focusing on 9th and 10th grade- aren't CAS classes honors classes? What would be the difference between an honors class and CAS?
Most students are not in the IB program, but reportedly the middle year IB program that would apply for 9th and 10th grade is pretty easy, unlike the 11th and 12 grade program. That may be b/c in many European countries students separate out into academic and trade tracks at age 16, so that the 11th and 12th grade programs are for the academic track. And, eligibility requirements are very different for IB versus CAS- a 2.5 GPA v. an IQ in the top 5% or so.
And even in AP classes, an emphasis on getting as many students to score a "3" as possible may leave little time to present information that would enable students to earn a 4 or a 5.
There would be a difference in an AP classroom where most students in the class arrive at a level of achievement that would allow them to earn a 4 of a 5 as opposed to a classroom where for many it would be a real stuggle to score a 3.
In a perfect world (or a perfect school system) there would be no need for CAS. All students would be taught at their level and would move on when material is mastered. In elementary school, it is fairly easy to accommodate different achievement levels. By middle school, it becomes much more difficult and both ends suffer. AT the high school level, if accommodations aren't made for the high achievers, they will leave. Not all high achievers are gifted and not all gifted are high achievers. CAS has kept many middle class parents in the system but I do not trust this admin to understand that.
What is interesting is how poorly reported the details are regarding the promise. How many people believe their kids are getting a FREE college education? That this administration attempts to hide its woeful academic prowess behind a corporate effort to line the coffers of the promise is very telling about those in charge. Absolutely NO academic integrity. Absolutely NO understanding of who the students are within urban education. Absolutely NO faith in its teaching staff. That everything revolves around getting kids onto the "pathway to the promise" is the simple idea that THIS effort takes priority over all else within PPS---the honest rendering of grades, the enactment of curricula that produces intelligent, free thinking students who will be ready for the world, the closure of schools for no other reason than to implement change for change sake, the outrageously poor discipline. Wake up. You have a corporate approach to running academia. This is Pittsburgh Public Schools' darkest hour, regardless of the "promise."
How would a pull-out program work at the high school level? At the elementary level it works because the gifted kids typically don't need all of the repetition that the non-gifted kids need. I don't know how the other middle schools worked their schedules, but at Frick on the day that the gifted kids went to the center, the ones who remained at the school did enrichment. It was too difficult to keep to the regular schedule with 1/3 of the students gone. At the high school level, most students can't afford to miss class regularly, at least my child can't.
Maybe that is the plan: offer a program that the kids will refuse to take advantage of because they don't want their regular school work to suffer and then blame the lack of participation on the kids.
But their goal is to eliminate the pull-out program for K-8, as far as I can tell. That's why there are pilot programs being started (by next fall, now) for providing gifted education in the schools.
Seems unlikely that they'd waste academic time "pulling out" to a separate site for HS, when there's no flexibility in those schedules and more courses available that might meet needs.
However, look around. Look at how many electives and special programs and all the things that made PPS unique are gradually disappearing.
Soon, there will be nothing but a test prep factory left with a monetary prize at the end for those that can stand the boredom.
If I were the parent of a 5th, 6th or 7th grader I wouldn't rest easy. Continuing for 4 years may mean that current 8th graders who start CAS in 9th grade get to continue it through their 4 high school years, but that it is phased out with no incoming CAS classes accepted.
This is an issue to question school board candidates about very carefully.
I haven't paid much attention to the plans for the gifted education in the elementary schools. Are the gifted services going to be within the regular classroom or is it going to be pull-out within the school?
There's a meeting on Wednesday at the BOE with the researcher whose program the Board approved. Each school is also supposed to be sort of designing their own, within the basic framework.
I think this is one of the things that sort of got shuffled to the side a lot in the "bit off more than they could chew" plans of the administration.
My understanding is that the gifted program for K-8 would be pull-out within the school. That's probably what they would do for HS as well. Otherwise they might as well just pull the gifted HS students out to college classes.
The Gifted Program with PPS from K-8) is NOT broken, IMNSHO. There are plenty of other systems that are broken.
I love the gifted center. My kids have loved it. Without the gifted center, there would be another 2,000 or so who would have departed the city schools -- at least -- my guess.
Sure, we can talk about making it better, cheaper, more inspired. Some other options could be introduced too.
I believe that the meeting is from 6-8 on Wednesday at the BOE and that parents at the 5 pilot program schools have been told about it.
However, I can't find a mention of it on the PPS website. Not that that's unusual. I believe that the researcher is Marcia Gentry from Purdue. Who knows, maybe it's been cancelled? April Fool's joke?
Yes, the meeting that may or may not be is about the elementary gifted pilot program -- the one that was announced more than a year ago.
The HS stuff is still in the rumors passed along by people who should know stage.
I'd also say if you look at what they're trying to do, decreasing the number of classes and types of classes at all HSs is right up there on their list.
And decreasing the number and types of classes fits right in with the Kaplan idea presented a few years ago of having the same curriculum apply for each student no matter how advanced or how far behind. Unfortunately, teaching to the middle (or to the bottom) will leave many students "underserved."
I apologize if anyone thinks I am attempting to highjack the thread, but it seem an appropriate time to ask for some professional help. I am trying hard to understand class rank in high school and the weighted/unweighted GPA impact to rank. Recently I became aware of a scholarship available only to the top 5% of a graduating class. One student was almost excluded because her unweighted GPA put her under the 5% line (by one position), which is used on transcripts. Her weighted GPA put her above the 5% line. How is valedictorian decided? Weighted or unweighted? And does the policy come from PPS or PDE?
Does this only apply to PPS because we are a CAS district as opposed to an AP/honors district?
In answer to the class rank question, according to the 2005-6 student handbook, the unweighted average inluding phys ed, health, and summer school is used to calculate class rank. Weighted class rank is calculated for post-secondary institutions interested in the level of the academic program pursued by graduates as high school students.
29 comments:
If that is true it would be very unfair to existing and incoming high school students who relied on CAS in deciding whether to go to a Pgh public high school.
If that is true, there will be continued flight from PPS to charter and private schools, or out of the district altogether. What moron dreams of such a thing? This district can't afford to lose any more academic achievers, especially in a time when grades are being inflated so the inferior or apathetic can become a part of the Pittsburgh Promise, a program that still is misunderstood by the masses and the only thing a political hack like Roosevelt can rest his hat upon.
How on earth do these rumors get started? Certainly CAS at the high school level, not to be confused with gifted education below grade 9, is unique to PPS in the eyes of the PDE. Does eveyone "get" the distinctions? Rather than speculate, we posters should be going to our school's PSCC meetings and asking the questions. You do not have to be a parent to attend. The first C represents COMMUNITY.
No this was not information about K-8, CAS is only in high schools, and it is the high school program they are discussing.
What is happening at elementaries is different- they are trying out a plan for moving gifted education back to each individual school. Which may be unfortunate because at some schools, depending on size, there might be only one or two students in a grade level who are highly gited and they will not have the opportunity to interact with other similar students.
Setting aside for the time being the claim that it is a wild rumor, does CAS fit into the plans of the designer high school concept? Will it make sense to have separate CAS classes in a full IB school? How many high schools in the state have separate gifted programs at the high school level and how many use AP and honors classes to fulfill the state requirements for gifted education? And by the way, I do attend PSCC meetings.
AP classes aren't generally available until 11th grade, so focusing on 9th and 10th grade- aren't CAS classes honors classes? What would be the difference between an honors class and CAS?
Most students are not in the IB program, but reportedly the middle year IB program that would apply for 9th and 10th grade is pretty easy, unlike the 11th and 12 grade program. That may be b/c in many European countries students separate out into academic and trade tracks at age 16, so that the 11th and 12th grade programs are for the academic track. And, eligibility requirements are very different for IB versus CAS- a 2.5 GPA v. an IQ in the top 5% or so.
And even in AP classes, an emphasis on getting as many students to score a "3" as possible may leave little time to present information that would enable students to earn a 4 or a 5.
There would be a difference in an AP classroom where most students in the class arrive at a level of achievement that would allow them to earn a 4 of a 5 as opposed to a classroom where for many it would be a real stuggle to score a 3.
In a perfect world (or a perfect school system) there would be no need for CAS. All students would be taught at their level and would move on when material is mastered. In elementary school, it is fairly easy to accommodate different achievement levels. By middle school, it becomes much more difficult and both ends suffer. AT the high school level, if accommodations aren't made for the high achievers, they will leave. Not all high achievers are gifted and not all gifted are high achievers. CAS has kept many middle class parents in the system but I do not trust this admin to understand that.
The idea may be that the Pittsburgh Promise will keep people in the system no matter what.
What is interesting is how poorly reported the details are regarding the promise. How many people believe their kids are getting a FREE college education?
That this administration attempts to hide its woeful academic prowess behind a corporate effort to line the coffers of the promise is very telling about those in charge. Absolutely NO academic integrity. Absolutely NO understanding of who the students are within urban education. Absolutely NO faith in its teaching staff.
That everything revolves around getting kids onto the "pathway to the promise" is the simple idea that THIS effort takes priority over all else within PPS---the honest rendering of grades, the enactment of curricula that produces intelligent, free thinking students who will be ready for the world, the closure of schools for no other reason than to implement change for change sake, the outrageously poor discipline.
Wake up. You have a corporate approach to running academia. This is Pittsburgh Public Schools' darkest hour, regardless of the "promise."
An 8th grade counselor confirmed to me that there are discussing changing CAS to a gifted pullout program like K - 8.
Continuing the above post-
This counselor's understanding is that rather than being eliminsted immediately CAS will continue for at least 4 more years.
How would a pull-out program work at the high school level? At the elementary level it works because the gifted kids typically don't need all of the repetition that the non-gifted kids need. I don't know how the other middle schools worked their schedules, but at Frick on the day that the gifted kids went to the center, the ones who remained at the school did enrichment. It was too difficult to keep to the regular schedule with 1/3 of the students gone. At the high school level, most students can't afford to miss class regularly, at least my child can't.
Maybe that is the plan: offer a program that the kids will refuse to take advantage of because they don't want their regular school work to suffer and then blame the lack of participation on the kids.
But their goal is to eliminate the pull-out program for K-8, as far as I can tell. That's why there are pilot programs being started (by next fall, now) for providing gifted education in the schools.
Seems unlikely that they'd waste academic time "pulling out" to a separate site for HS, when there's no flexibility in those schedules and more courses available that might meet needs.
However, look around. Look at how many electives and special programs and all the things that made PPS unique are gradually disappearing.
Soon, there will be nothing but a test prep factory left with a monetary prize at the end for those that can stand the boredom.
If I were the parent of a 5th, 6th or 7th grader I wouldn't rest easy. Continuing for 4 years may mean that current 8th graders who start CAS in 9th grade get to continue it through their 4 high school years, but that it is phased out with no incoming CAS classes accepted.
This is an issue to question school board candidates about very carefully.
I haven't paid much attention to the plans for the gifted education in the elementary schools. Are the gifted services going to be within the regular classroom or is it going to be pull-out within the school?
There's a meeting on Wednesday at the BOE with the researcher whose program the Board approved. Each school is also supposed to be sort of designing their own, within the basic framework.
I think this is one of the things that sort of got shuffled to the side a lot in the "bit off more than they could chew" plans of the administration.
My understanding is that the gifted program for K-8 would be pull-out within the school. That's probably what they would do for HS as well. Otherwise they might as well just pull the gifted HS students out to college classes.
What program is this the board has approved, and when? Is this a program for gifted instruction at the HS level, or K-8? Is it open to the public?
It is hard to get into a conversation about rumors. I really think facts with attribution - names, dates, comments - should be part of the mix.
It may be true. But, it would be easier to talk about if the root of the discussion was with real people attached.
The district is full of FUD already (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt).
The Gifted Program with PPS from K-8) is NOT broken, IMNSHO. There are plenty of other systems that are broken.
I love the gifted center. My kids have loved it. Without the gifted center, there would be another 2,000 or so who would have departed the city schools -- at least -- my guess.
Sure, we can talk about making it better, cheaper, more inspired. Some other options could be introduced too.
Not everyone feels safe speaking for attribution- but we will ask the district for confirmation and more information.
I believe that the meeting is from 6-8 on Wednesday at the BOE and that parents at the 5 pilot program schools have been told about it.
However, I can't find a mention of it on the PPS website. Not that that's unusual. I believe that the researcher is Marcia Gentry from Purdue. Who knows, maybe it's been cancelled? April Fool's joke?
Is this about the K-8 program then, rather than gifted programming at the HS level (given that the 5 pilots have been notified)?
Yes, the meeting that may or may not be is about the elementary gifted pilot program -- the one that was announced more than a year ago.
The HS stuff is still in the rumors passed along by people who should know stage.
I'd also say if you look at what they're trying to do, decreasing the number of classes and types of classes at all HSs is right up there on their list.
And decreasing the number and types of classes fits right in with the Kaplan idea presented a few years ago of having the same curriculum apply for each student no matter how advanced or how far behind. Unfortunately, teaching to the middle (or to the bottom) will leave many students "underserved."
I apologize if anyone thinks I am attempting to highjack the thread, but it seem an appropriate time to ask for some professional help. I am trying hard to understand class rank in high school and the weighted/unweighted GPA impact to rank. Recently I became aware of a scholarship available only to the top 5% of a graduating class. One student was almost excluded because her unweighted GPA put her under the 5% line (by one position), which is used on transcripts. Her weighted GPA put her above the 5% line. How is valedictorian decided? Weighted or unweighted? And does the policy come from PPS or PDE?
Does this only apply to PPS because we are a CAS district as opposed to an AP/honors district?
In answer to the class rank question, according to the 2005-6 student handbook, the unweighted average inluding phys ed, health, and summer school is used to calculate class rank. Weighted class rank is calculated for post-secondary institutions interested in the level of the academic program pursued by graduates as high school students.
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