From the Tribune:
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/regional/s_646379.html
This program also would pay tuition for students staying in PA for post-secondary education. The GPA requirement would be 3.0. The article does not discuss how it would mesh with the Pittsburgh Promise, but perhaps if a new program paid tuition the Promise could be used for room, board, books, etc.
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Chalk this up to a politician dishing out promises he can't keep. I'm skeptical. Was in the same mind with the PP too. But, I ate my words on that, mostly.
Why is it that there is a disconnect about the Promise? It's not a free education by any stretch of the imagination.
Again, if Johnny wants to go to Penn State, he has to apply for all the aid and grants/scholarships that he can. PSU's Financial Aid department will send him a report that lets him know what he is eligible for and what he will owe at the end of it all. That's when the Promise can be used to make ends meet. Then and only then.
I think the Promise is a wonderful program, but I have to wonder sometimes if the idea is to generally mislead the public. If the aforementioned scenario, Johnny will stay have loans to repay post graduation. If goes the private school route, he'll owe even more.
Why are so few aware of this?
Pardon my clumsy fingers. The past line was meant to read, "In the aforementioned scenario, Johnny will still have loans to repay post graduation. If goes the private school route, he'll owe even more."
I suppose it can be considered a free education if you go to a school that costs 5 thousand dollars a year, right? If your chosen school costs more, you need additional scholarships or loans to fill the gap. Pretty easy to follow, I think.
Lisa is correct in her thinking. Presenters find it easy to call it a Free Education because a student could opt for a community college where they could have Promise money left over after paying tuition. While the amount will jump to $10,000 per year/per student for 2012 graduates, it is a shame that the Promise did not include some bonus for graduates who have maintained good grades over the past four years. The Promise did not even exist when the 2010 graduates were 9th graders. It seems that those kids who did well without the "carrot" of the Promise deserve recognition and reward.
Here's a concern that does not seem to have been discussed.
Many selective schools are to some degree need sensitive when it comes to admissions; only a very few are completely need blind. Especially with finances so tight at colleges these days, the fact that a financial aid application is being completed might be a negative factor in the admissions decision. To maximize admissions chances, a student might not want to even complete the FAFSA.
Cutting the other way a well informed admissions office might realize that a PPS graduate will have a source of funds; however, the goal of the Pittsburgh Promise was not to replace funds that would have been made available anyway and efforts were to have been made to prevent that.
Lisa's reply is appropriate but illustrates more of the disconnect I am a little disappointed about. Look, any money is good money. I will applaud the Promise for helping the average student. Unfortunately, it is of lesser help to the kid who has always aspired to greater heights where the future is concerned. Kids who achieve in CAS,AP, PSP or just general studies may not be looking at a 5K/year...or even 10K/yr school. Their aspirations may be more in proportion to their dreams and quite often, they aspire to schools which carry a much more lofty price tag.
To me, this is the failure of the Promise and especially, the pathway to the promise idea that elevates grades of students. If what you are truly trying to promote is excellence, then some sort of proportionate money should have been made available out of this program for high achievers. Left as is, a 4.0 student who is looking at a private school will generally not have access to a great deal of aid, will have 5K via the Promise if he is fortunate, will have to still arrange funding to make ends meet and will still be made to repay loans post graduation. We've failed this type of kid.
Meanwhile, the Promise tends to bend over backwards through grade escalation and economic circumstances to get kids into those "$5000 a year" schools.
Sorry. This is not "Excellence for All."
This is exactly the kind of issue that could have been a topic for public discussion and input. The benefit to the Promise and PPS? Much greater public buy-in.
I wonder if the Promise designers or directors ever think of those students described by Observer. It would seem one more benefit of The Promise needs more discussion too. Has the Promise brought about a more ordered environment within a classroom? Has it had enough of an impact in the area of behavior to make the mainstream classroom more conducive to learning?
Leaving aside the greater purposes the administration has for the Promise or how they may or may not use it to affect rigor and grading...
What's with the complaining about free money?! It's not like if you move to a suburban school around here you're going to get 50K instead of 5K -- you'll get nothing instead.
I think it's a perfectly fine (especially at 10K and if it were to go beyond PA) program that is helping kids at all levels. For some kids who have even gotten near full-rides, it can be used for things like books and expenses like that which might have still put college out of their reach.
For families that wouldn't get much or any aid, it's 5K a year less they're spending. I don't know, but it strikes me that a 20K gift is not something to complain about. Having 20K less in loans (and subsequent interest) is a good thing.
But is the money really free if it comes at the expense of contributions to the public service fund?
And in any event there don't seem to be complaints about the money but rather differing opinions some may have about the program structure and marketing.
that is my main gripe about the Promise...the program structure and marketing.
While I am grateful for the 5 thousand a year my child currently receives from the program, the money is not sent to Pitt till the end of the add/drop period. Thus, I keep getting email reminders that my bill is not paid. Surely there could be a way to stop this.
Then, we get letters in the mail asking us to donate to the Promise fund....WHAT???
Then we get invitations to various events held by the Promise folk that are little more than shameless parades to show how well our grads are doing...again to drum up donations. I replied to one invitation that I think they should be using money spent on these events to bolster the Promise fund.
Also, to Observer, and the concerns about high achievers...well, high achievers have many more scholarship opportunities to get money based on merit. Low income students can qualify for need based money. But it is good that the Promise gives some money to ALL. Therefore, it is a fair distribution of the fund.
These days there doesn't seem to be much merit based money available- except for Pitt honors, most programs are need based, and the way the colleges define "need" often ends up leaving families to pay much more than the colleges think they should be able to afford. $5k/yr often will not close the gap. $10k will do more but still, many middle income high achieving students will be unable to afford the best schools they have been accepted to.
Part of the problem is the colleges. The more they collect the more they spend. They used to not have sushi bars, climbing walls, elaborate "welcome" parties, etc. but now they compete to offer the most frills- raising costs for everyone in the process.
Well, lots of people these days cant afford the best of everything, whether its cars, housing, clothing, etc. Note the spike in applications to state universities. What once were snubbed for being too public are now excellent and affordable options. No need for all of this massive education debt. One can always go Ivy League for grad school.
True but when it comes to colleges it is actually the middle class families that are in the worst position because they cannot pay easily like wealthy families, or get 100% aid like a family without much income. Some students with the greatest merit slip through the cracks and are not matched with the college that will best develop their abilities.
Schreyers Honors College at Penn State is one of the best kept secrets that our family has ever found out about. After not wanting to even apply to Penn State, and wanting to attend out of state and private schools, my child is now the happiest college student in the world. This small college on the large university campus, with its own dean and administration, separate dorms, priority registration for honors and all other classes, as well as first year research opportunities, has so many perks, it is almost embarrassing! The graduate school placement history is impressive and the small school personal attention is ever present. Plus it comes with an nice annual scholarship, and being Penn State, is eligible for the Promise. If a post-secondary scholarship program existed, this education would almost be free!
I am no longer a cheerleader for the PPS, and have not been since the current administration has been making blatantly insensitive decisions, such as the fact that my child's school was closed and moved to a warehouse, but my family is taking advantage of the Promise and the result will be little debt at the end of 4 years of college at a highly reputable institution.
Here's how Schrey has been described:
"Penn State's Schreyer Honors College offers an Ivy League-style education minus the sticker shock. With average SAT scores as high as Dartmouth's, for example, 1,800 students study with top professors, in mostly small classes. Schreyer has a 100% advanced-degree placement rate for students who apply upon graduation. The price? About $11,000 a year for Pennsylvania residents."
http://www.rd.com/your-america-inspiring-people-and-stories/best-of-america-penn-state-schreyers-honors/article36183.html
- So if the 11k includes room and board, the 10k/yr Pittsburgh Promise amount should just about cover it!
Actually, it is a little more,now. After the $3500 scholarship, and $4750 from the Promise, it is costing a little less than $15,000 per year (minus books,etc.)
Hmm, Penn State must have been adding a few of those climbing walls and sushi bars as well!
But definitely still a good deal.
Penn State Tuition (not room and board)
http://tuition.psu.edu/Rates2009-10/UniversityPark.asp
Lisa --
There should be a way to fix that -- we didn't have that problem with Pitt and Promise money. They hassled about a check we sent that they didn't get in the mail for over a week or so they said, but the Promise money was listed and we never got any emails.
Penn State never bothered us about the Promise money. When I saw that it hadn't been paid, i called them (Penn State) and they said not to worry- they knew that it would be coming!
Glad to hear Lisa's Promise payment is not a universal issue, but I have heard similiar srories from parents about late notices coming. At a Promise night event Mr. Ghubril (sp?) commited to look into it.
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