Friday, November 25, 2011
Citations as way to maintain order
This week's televised public hearing included an attempt by Mark Brentley to discuss citations being issued at one of the district schools. He held up a stack of citations from the local magistrate issued to students for disorderly conduct. Even though he was not mentioning any student names the discussion was quickly squelched and his microphone cut off. The question is, are citations an acceptable way to deal with discipline problems? Are they an effective way to deal with discipline problems? If PPS is paying for CEP, why are students being cited rather than referred to CEP?
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15 comments:
The meeting also included an incomprehensible discussion about the possible bankruptcy of someone or some organization.
I am not sure if citations are the most effective way to maintain order. However, sometimes they are the only way for there to be any consequences for the students. There are guidelines to who can be referred to CEP. Students who have an IEP cannot go. Students who have already been in trouble with the law cannot go (have a Probation officer). CEP has never been proven successful. They had a bad reputation before they even began here. You must remember some of the criticism about having that program here because of that. Parents can refuse to send their child, and based on what I know about the program, I would refuse to send mine.
The bottom line is that if many of the students behaved in public they way they behave in some of our hallways and classrooms, the police would be called. Schools often have their hands tied with what, if any, consequences can be given. It may sound harsh, but sometimes there is no other alternative than to issue a citation for what a student has done.
We are already having a difficult time preparing our students for the real world. Many of the students who are able to go onto some type of post-secondary education do not even make it through the first semester. Why? There are so many reasons and they have all been addressed in other areas of this blog (curriculum, grading rules, spoon feeding so they pass by whatever means necessary, etc.). At least giving the citation gives them an idea of what may happen if they go out in public and exhibit the same behaviors. If they go to the mall and fight, cuss out adults, destroy property, etc, security will be called and they will get in trouble. Not a bad lesson to learn in school.
You do know that this citation thing is just the kinda stuff Attorney Weiss cautions against discussing in public, right? Could this citation thing be the cause of principals on leave or suspension or whatever with pay? If it is a citation-worthy offense does it get reported to the state for the school safety report or not?
Under the initial principals there were some citations for fighting, but the number of citations greatly increased with the new (ie, returning) principal and now they are for disorderly conduct.
I'd agree with Anon 2:47 regarding citations.
It's the one way a school has to give the message to both the child and the parent that this is a concern that's not just within the school -- that's it's something a magistrate will take seriously.
It's also used when someone does something seriously bad, but that kid may not have a recent "paper trail" of bad behavior. To get to alternate placements requires a lot of "proof" of what you've tried and done to remediate at the school level.
For some parents (and kids) citations will get their attention in a way that detentions, suspensions, or moving schools won't. Sending kids to CEP is, well, not likely to really do much except make the school they left a little calmer.
Too many times it seems that school is seen as somehow removed from society. Things that would get you in big trouble in "the real world" get treated very differently in schools. Citations are a way to get past that when necessary.
Pipelines to prison . . . . Doesn't PPS know any other way to change behaviors, to change lives. When has punishment ever done that? Pipelines to prison . . . Why would anyone want that?
Honestly 11:59 ? Have you experienced an out of control student? Or perhaps you think PPS should add a course for students to "get their feelings out" like a small group therapy session? Oh wouldn't they love that extra time out of class. Act up and get MORE attention, yes I believe that would solve the problem...hmmm. I can see it now "Now, tell us more about why you decided to destroy school property, strike three other students, attempt to hit the teacher with a chair - all while cursing and threatening everyone in your presence?" Let's take time to focus on you who can't seem to follow the rule of society while we don't worry about your 26 other classmates who can. Honestly, do you think citations are written up for students who simply roll their eyes? When it gets to that point, I can almost guarantee the school has tried all other measures, including working with the parent who doesn't have any control of their child either.
CREATE a scenario that works instead of one that does not. IF that is not possible (for those who are in that position) then perhaps we need those who THINK differently in positions of leadership.
We need those who DEFINE themselves as problem solving adult with the best interests of ALL students at heart.
We need arguments FOR this end result in schools, NOT AGAINST it.
Just like we need that in America but unfortunately reality isn't perfect like your beliefs...
And I believe protecting other students from one irate one would be having the best interests of ALL students at heart...including the one who is out of control...we wouldn't want that poor student to hurt themselves either...
And unfortunately...no matter how hard we try to CREATE the best scenario...not EVERY student responds...it would be unfair to say all teachers are not problem solvers, when in fact the majority of them are...and do their best each day to reach all students, however when some students fail to respond to multiple outreach or totally disregard others to fulfill their own needs, that becomes a real problem and sometimes the only way to SOLVE the problem is to cite them which starts the process of helping them and their families.
6:43-6:48 - Just one question: Is it working for you?
(It doesn't seem to be working for kids or schools.)
I guess it if gets rid of kids it is working for you.
But, remember, in the final analysis the more kids PPS gets rid of, the more teachers and schools will have to go with them.
There seems to be an inability to make it 'work' from top to bottom in PPS.
When will we learn?
Ms/mr ideologue,
The reason PPS is losing students is because all the focus is laserbeamed on the troubled students, not the other way around. History repeats itself when the lessons are not learned.
We are sacrificing the many to save the few, so schools are failing. It should be to sacrifice the few to save the many, so that societies may survive and thrive.
Sorry, but I have to interject. The focus is on the ends and the middle is ignored.
That is, this district will "protect" its elitist school within a school at Allderdice and its programs at CAPA on one end.
It will move its troubled students around the district on the other (you would have to kill someone to be expelled and even then, you'd likely be allowed back at some point)
I always have to laugh at the crowd that thinks jettisoning kids out of your classroom is the answer. You're just giving the kid what he wants. In this country, we have never ever come to grips with what we do with kids whose parents do....not....care.
That's the conundrum and that's where it all begins, and ends. How do we work with these types of kids? The ones who don't care and come from homes with the same attitude?
Let's try working with at risk families from the time a child is born.
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