Continuing the original "Changes to CAS" post Anonymous wrote:
"Here's some enlightenment for you: so this year, mainstream English classes became "PSP" amid a flurry of double-speak as to exactly why. Interesting to note that the PFT contract states that MAINSTREAM English class sizes may not exceed 30. It says NOTHING about PSP, which, according to Union leadership, opens the door for those classes to be an AVERAGE of 35, plus or minus 4. Smart move for the administration; they slipped it right past us. Welcome to the new "state of the union".
As to the CAS fiasco, research proves that gifted students learn differently. They need to be challenged on a differentiated level based on the nature of their "giftedness". That is next to impossible when class sizes are growing exponentially. For now, CAS is the new PSP, while PSP is the new mainstream, and mainstream? Why, they just don't exist as that would mean that some are simply not "Promise-Ready". And we can't have that now, can we?"
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56 comments:
Yes, gifted kids learn differently. But there is lots of research out there that shows that kids from middle class homes are more likely to be identified as gifted than kids in poor households. There is NOTHING wrong with the idea of getting motivated and smart kids who WANT the challenge into a CAS class. That's a good thing and should be supported.
Class size, yes, we should push to maintain smaller class sizes for CAS classess. But do keep in mind that many schools had too few CAS students to even offer CAS classes (so the gifted students had no choice but to take PSP classes). This approach will help to meet the needs of gifted and motivated kids in schools where the CAS population is small because the school can now offer a CAS class in a variety of disciplines.
IBDP IS essentially AP/CAS.
The only option for the high achieving student is Obama. That's it's not a school within a school approach is a great plus.
The problem is, PPS is no longer going to keep CAS classes at 20 students. And how do we know that giften students at schools previously unable to offer CAS classes won't essentially still be in PSP classes? In that case we are not talking about adding a few students to a large number of students identified as gifted, but rather the other way around- adding a large number of students to a few identified as gifted. Teachers are going to have to teach to the middle of the class or risk looking bad if students don't do well. And large classes make it much more difficult to differentiate. Have other options for schools with just a few CAS students been explored? With the increase in magnets and scholarships offered by private schools, how many of those students remain at their home schools anyway?
Also at just the time changes are being made in the composition of CAS classes and the number of students per class, PPS is replacing CAS facilitators who had reduced teaching loads with teachers who spend an extra 40 minutes a day facilitating. See the Westinghouse link/ taking on too much at once.
From the third letter to the editor in today's PG-
"The Pittsburgh school board has indicated it wants to give good students an opportunity to enroll in college-level classes. What it forgot to mention is that not only are they dropping the caliber of student in these classes but they also are rewriting the curriculum to accommodate the new students."
Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/12028/1206504-110-3.stm#ixzz1klpUq9zb
- Does anyone know how the curriculum is being rewritten?
When decisions are made that affect a group in the minority, that group should have a say in the decisions. Talk to CAS parents and students. Be sure that those making the decisions include people with the IQ's in question.
At one time, the biology, chemistry, and physics classes all had two double lab periods per week. So each science student had seven periods of science per week.
The double lab periods allowed for serious in-depth experiments. This gave the students significant laboratory experience. It was the inquiry method at its best.
Then about five years ago, the mainstream double labs were eliminated. Then about two years ago the PSP double labs were also eliminated.
This was a significant blow to the high school science curriculum. The administration said this was done to save money. I never understood that. Lab supplies are not all that expensive. And the students still had to be scheduled for a full day. The loss of the double lab meant they had to go somewhere else instead.
Anyway, as of now only the CAS upper science classes have double period labs. That alone is an insult to the mainstream and PSP science students.
I wonder if the new changes will also eliminate the CAS double period labs.
To "Anonymous 9:40am": let's look at that research upon which you are hanging your proverbial hat. First, who is requesting the "identification"? If you think it's the teachers, you'd be dead wrong. For the most part, the majority of requests for testing come from the PARENTS. I suggest to you that our poorer families either don't have the resources for independent testing OR they don't understand, or have access to knowledge of, the process. So instead of shafting and shortchanging truly gifted students by filling their classes with kids who "try real hard", let's perhaps focus on working harder to identify kids.
With that said, so WHAT if a building only has 4, 5 or 6 gifted kids at any given grade level? We have tons of options that the current administration absolutely refuses to acknowledge. What about a research-based pull out program? It certainly works well in suburban districts. Don't like that idea? How about combining gifted kids across grade levels in a Montessori approach? How about a high school program similar to the middle school program? ANY of these options is certainly sub par to the dedicated CAS class, but it beats the hell out of begging parents and kids to sign up for gifted classes! In our building it has taken five months to recruit a few kids who are capable of handling the curriculum. What held them up? They didn't want to fill out the application. Oh LORD, and THAT is what we'll be teaching, right alongside the kid with the 150 IQ who deserves the challenge.
PPS doesn't accept independent testing any more. A big reason for these changes seems to be financial- it is expensive to have 3 levels of courses, and they are not comfortable with some schools having 3 levels when others do not (even if some schools are too small to fill 3 levels). And, PPS is claiming that under a loophole they found classes may not have more than 20 identified students but unidentified students can be added to the 20 identified students until the union contract limit of 36 is reached. PPS's goal is 30 students per high school class.
Main reason for this is to cut teaching jobs. When these facist rolled out the core curiculums there was no difference between PSP and Mainstream. Its a way to increase class sizes and to cut teaching jobs.
Will my child be able to get a decent education at Allderdice in 2 years? She is in gifted. I am starting to get very concerned.
Send your child to Obama.
Obama may or may not be a good program. Right now? I'd go with Allderdice. After the changes, maybe Obama.
But that's only because Obama is already where Allderdice is going to be. That is, ALL kids taking the same classes. Very little differentiation, though some ability to choose who comes into the program. Watching who leaves and who comes in will be key.
But they've already moved away from the idea of some classes being more in-depth or faster paced. The IBDP program IS rigorous and a good one. But if it is slowed down or watered down so that half or more of the class doesn't fail, well, then it's not the same program.
See how college admissions go this year and next -- they don't seem particularly prepared currently to help students with that. See how many of the excellent teachers remain and how many leave over those two years. Then decide.
For some students one program may be better and for other students the other may be better. The problem is that 1) PPS give no guidance on how to find the best match and 2) whether students end up in one or the other is often determined at least in part by geography not the best fit. And there are so many changes being made w/in the district that it is really hard to know how things will be 4-5 years out.
When kids are pushed into more advanced classes I see more cheating.
Oh my goodness! More cheating? Good teaching replaces the need for any cheating!
(And before denial raises its ugly head, this is coming from a long term teacher of very 'urban' kids.)
"Good teaching replaces the need for any cheating!"
And good government replaces the need for any stealing.
Oh, if only teachers were perfect. Then no one would cheat.
And if only government were perfect. Then no one would steal.
Today's NYT reports how admissions officers at very respected colleges felt pressured to fudge SAT and other statistics- one said "God forbid that the school should go down in rankings." And then there was the Atlanta state achievement test cheating scandal. And the "surrogate SAT test takers" on Long Island.
Hundreds of PSP students have applied for CAS. Allderdice has the most applications.
Allderdice has the most applicants because Allderdice has the most students.
Sheesh.
Love the school within a school elitism. Wonder how that will play when it all comes crashing down and the idea goes kaputt.
Careful what you wish for, parents! One of the allures of CAS has been that class sizes are small and manageable. With that in mind, consider this...CAS class sizes have been guided by policy that states that there may be no more than so many "GIFTED" students in a class. In PPS terms, what this translates to is that a CAS class can then contain only the limited number of IDENTIFIED students but can then be filled to capacity (35 or so) with NON identified students (those who didn't TEST in to the program via an IQ score). Class sizes are going to skyrocket and any meaningful benefits there were to being in those classes will have been lost.
More letters to the editor on this topic; see the 4th letter in today's PG.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/12035/1208066-110-3.stm
Your link to the letter to the PG editor provides no surprise, Questioner. Here is a CAS facilitator and CAPA teacher who sees the writing on the wall and wishes to make sweeping generalizations about their being "no program for gifted kids" in PPS and punctuates his feelings with the idea that parents will pull their kids out with his belief in mind.
He should qualify his comments, of course, with the caveat "parents who fail to do research."
I find it comical that the sacred cows of the school within a school elite at Allderdice and the heretofore privileged school of CAPA are now in the cross hairs, leading faculty to carp long and loud about how this targeting means the end of PPS.
Someone ought to provide a little clarity to faculty and parents at those schools: you are only part of a larger district and should be subject to the same hardships that every other school is facing thanks to budget problems.
Someone up above says that Obama is the natural choice for parents of gifted students. Indeed. The only individuals throwing stones at IBDP are those who don't know, have some preconceived bias about IB or the school or are simply close-minded thanks to the shock of cuts visiting them in a little too close to home fashion.
Do the research. Obama is a fine school, with fine teachers and a tremendous program. And the benefits that IB provide even beyond high school makes it a viable alternative.
The main issue here however is class size. Whether at Obama, CAPA, Allderdice or anywhere else in the district, larger classes make it more difficult for students to receive a quality education.
And your points and concerns are well taken. Central administration has taken this issue out of the hands of principals. It will decide how many teachers will be in staff based upon 30 kids in each class.
That said, I would rather my kid be in a class of kids who are buying into the idea of IBDP or what IB in general can do before I would want them in an Allderdice where the school within a school concept is gone.
At most of the schools there will be one group in the combined CAS/part of PSP track and another group in the combined mainstream/remainder of PSP track. Won't each school essentially have two schools within a school?
Unless I am mistaken, it is the principal's view and message to all Obama students and families that the diploma should be the goal. I'm not naive to the point that believes that all kids can achieve the IB diploma, but it would seem to me that if this is the mandate that teachers have, that parents embrace, if nothing else in theory, and that students are cognizant of, it is a better alternative. Secondly, it would seem to me that the school as a whole has a different population of students than places where CAS/PSP will now combine.
I've never met an Obama student or family member who didn't envision college as the goal.
Knowing what I do about comprehensive PPS schools and that PSP there is not a lot different than mainstream, it would seem to me that this mix is still a plus at Obama.
College is probably the goal for all CAS and PSP students as well! And PPS has tried to make it the goal for most mainstream students, without much support for very viable and well-paying alternatives in the skilled trades.
Perhaps this is PPS's push, Questioner, especially with the Promise. Again, I'm in disagreement with you where populations are concerned. I simply believe that the population at an Obama in total is much different than the population at Allderdice in total. Or most other schools, really.
And I believe that IB is a tremendous program and worthwhile for our students.
I am anonymous February 1, 2012 2:25 PM
I am really uncomfortable with Obama due the too much too soon issues PPS seems to have. It is moving to Perry, which is not a great location for us. I know 2 bright middle school kids that left Obama in 7th grade by choice due to how disruptive some classes were and it found it to be a difficult learning environment. Both kids transferred, by choice to Greenfield and they are seeing the same behavioral issues and lack of disipline.
Are the class sizes getting larger? Are the teachers all properly IB trained? Is this just a watered down CAS, IB, PSP stew? Is Obama run by PELA? After reading abut Wetinghouse the transition to Perry makes me nervous.
As parents of high achieving kids I am so surprised I get little information helping me steer my kids into the proper choice. (we all should have that as a resource btw, not just my kids) Everything keeps changing and my oldest does not handle rapid change or disruption well. The only day of the week they are excited to go to school is one day a week. Off to Greenway.
I have days where I feel like I am tossing them on a bus and hope it will be ok. It is very unsettling. We have had great teachers but the inconsistancy & shuffling has become insane.
Allderdice at least has a very strong neighborhood/Parent association..(with money & clout) that carries weight with Lane and her girls, everyone knows that. (the inequity and mismanagement of Westinghouse alone makes me ill) I am so discouraged by how much this is not about the students. I am going to fill out as many private school scholorship applications as I can next year. I really feel lost and will need every chance I can to figure out what is the best fit and hope it is reciprocated.
As a mom this is kinda scary territory.
Obama is run by Dr.Wayne Walters. He is not a PELA.
I'd say that above and beyond all else, Obama is a safe school and commentaries about the middle school grades are largely attributable to one's perception. I would disagree about the school having issues with unruly middle schoolers.
Lastly, you need to become acquainted with IBMYP and IBDP. They are not programs that are watered-down anything.
And just wait until college selections of the first senior class begin to go public. Keep in mind that the school is much smaller than an Allderdice.
To me, the choice is a no-brainer.
Are behavior problems at any school just a matter of perception? How do you tell the difference between real problems and just perceptions?(
No friend, behavior problems aren't attributable to one's perception. But if you would call kids being chatty at Obama "a behavior problem", as some critics with an axe to grind would say, and then compare it to true behavior problems at most local middle schools, then perhaps the perception comment is more lucid.
PPS needs more Counselors!!! Hasn't this been an area where audits have said we have been deficient for years?
Calling boys "fags" and throwing them down a flight of stairs with no reprocussions is my perception of bad behavior. Also simply not feeling safe or protected in your own school is stressfull.
Maybe I expect too much.
Odd, I post my concerns as a Mom, and I feel like I am getting criticitized for my perceptions and apparently have an axe to grind? I assure you I do not, I simply am looking for help and most days I am am pretty lucid. (if indeed the comments were directed towards me)
Then again I am used to being disrespected by PPS in general, but not by teachers. It is not a welcoming environment, I was hoping to get more insight.
Even excessive chattiness can be a real problem if it prevents teachers from teaching- and that is something that happens in one classroom or another at probably all schools. Will the Teachers' Academy be teaching how to address this situation?
2:51, safety is every parent's first concern. Other middle school parents from all backgrounds who have no previous history with the district and cannot by any stretch be accused of an axe to grind have made similar comments. If it is any consolation, behavior improves in high school. At that point ensuring safe surroundings for the building becomes most important because students are not going straight from the bus to school and school to the bus.
@ anon 2/5 5:07
You know that Obama/IB is moving to Peabody, not Perry, right?
It's a lot different taking an intact school and group of kids and moving them entirely into a (virtually) empty building (what Obama will do) than to attempt what was attempted at W'house.
Not to say it's not without some difficulties, but they aren't changing programs, teachers, students, or adding grades, uniforms, etc. I feel worst for the teachers who've had to move several times in the last few years -- to Reiz and then once or twice more as one set of students was faded out and the other "grown in."
But then, I'm also assuming it was just a typo!
To mom, not at all. I think you have put forward honest questions here. Knowing what I do about some of the posters here, the same cannot be said. Some don't like the principal. Some don't like his beliefs. Some don't like the competition.
Ask away. Yours is not the problem.
To anon at 2:40, prove it. Come out of the shadows and state where you got your information. Posting gossip on a message board is the type of venom I am accustomed to here. But indeed, perhaps I expect too much, as well.
Perhaps you can shed some light on the myriad troubles at other schools, since you are privy to disciplinary information. We can compare sources once you have removed your veil.
The discipline issues in this district are real. People write here honestly because they canb be anonymous. The reality is that beneath the high school; level particularly- there ARE no consequences for many serious incidents, particularly in schools with PELAs.It is no a rumor when teachers and students tell you things happened, and there is a feeling that nothing is done. It is true. I'm sure most people whp write here have more to do than make up stories about PRLAs. They are told- shove the blame bakc on the teacher, guilty- trip em if they try to suggest that a disruptive student leave the room, and if they do manage to get a student out to protect other students, be sure to tell them the problem is wityh their practice.
"To anon at 2:40, prove it. Come out of the shadows and state where you got your information. Posting gossip on a message board is the type of venom I am accustomed to here. But indeed, perhaps I expect too much, as well."
Minadeo last year. Not gossip.
Anon,
Perhaps you don't see the humor in your posting that someone should "remove the veil" while you are posting anonymously? It's really quite hilarious.
Believe me, parents are pretty good sources. Other parents know the other kids and hear from their kids. Parents who sugarcoat their children's actions aren't believed. But hear enough stories (and live enough of them) about lack of discipline, unfairly meted out discipline (as in the both kids being punished equally even if one of them clearly was a constant aggressor), and some incidents given a lunch detention while a less serious one results in a harsher punishment?
At your school, I can think of one VERY serious incident (which was fortunately stopped before there was serious harm because one of the students who was to be involved in the attack realized how bad the situation was and 'fessed up to prevent it) and several long-term bullying episodes that resulted in injuries.
Yes, kids will be kids and kids have bad judgment and *often* make bad choices. Kids also shouldn't be permanently judged by an out of the ordinary incident or something blown out of proportion.
But, it's also true that there are kids who will push and misbehave UNTIL there is a clear and drastic line set. PELAs and other principals who don't understand the need for that will not have safe schools.
"You know that Obama/IB is moving to Peabody, not Perry, right"
Yes, I mixed the names up.
Thank you for the information, it is very helpful. I hope the staff remains intact through the cuts net year. It is nice to know the Principal s not a PELA. Do teachers have to have special training, (not RISE, or whatever the acronym) to teach IB? I am just curious because this is new territory for me.
Navigating through this maze can be confusing.
All IB teaschers have had to go to training at points around the country, whether it is IBMYP or IBDP.
(Why is a comment about Minadeo coming up in questions about Obama?)
I society/school district is judged by how we take care the least among us. Westinghouse is a example of what this district things of or least. We need to start there and hold the district adminstrators accountable, because those of us who are in a better position in can take care of our own in the interim.
What I can tell you we would have never tolerated that at Allderdice, capa, sci tech or obama. Lets help to raise Westinghouse up then go through every school and get it together. And before we do such, lets get rid of Otuwa and Dr. lane they are responsible for all this mess.
The Principal at Obama would have been a far better choice for superintendent than Linda Lane. We really should consider drafting him to this position.
Otuwa has to go. She is just not very bright and Lane knows this. Lopez was much better than her but he had other motives and lacked the abilty to relate to the comunities. He wanted to make a name for himself instead of having a kids first vision.
"The Principal at Obama would have been a far better choice for superintendent than Linda Lane."
I don't think you're a teacher at Obama and I'm sure you're not one of the many of his former teachers around the district! Are you one of the administrative helpers? a counselor?
Dr. Walters was good at running a middle school in earlier administrations. That allowed him to encourage lots of extra activities. The magnet status gave him enough demanding parents to push him along to providing a decent enough education. Remains to be seen how good he is at running a high school.
He's good enough at understanding the politics of a situation and adapting himself to them. He's also pretty vindictive. Neither of those is a great quality of leadership in a superintendent.
Yes, Otuwa and Lane are ultimately responsible for the sad, sad status of schools in Pittsburgh's African American communities; but, they are using those named as "Chiefs" (French and Lippert) to control the design, delivery, development of staff, and documentation structures in a "one size fits all" system that DEFIES LOGIC as well as sound educational philosophy, psychology, and professionalism.
There is a true lack of knowledge about "what works" in education among this Central Office group. The results continue to be devastating to educational progress in Pittsburgh. It must change before we reach a point of no return. Urgent action is required!
Commentators, can we all please focus on the issues rather than on evaluating individual adminstrators, etc.
Questioner, your failure to see the whole picture is astounding, given substantive information and documentation. If PPS LEADERS were competent educators, we would have a high-achieving, creative, productive and successful students in ALL communities and student populations.
Many of us will never agree with your perspective, but, the opportunity to effect change, in one instance for one person, or one child, keeps us posting here.
Sorry, but we will never be able to hash out here whether someone is or is not vindictive, or bright.
Staying away from personalities my problem with Dr. Walters is that he does not return emails.
Dr.Walters is a man with a great deal on his plate. I am willing to excuse his failure to return emails. I have never known him to be averse to anything which is for the kids. I have never known him to be vindictive with any teacher who works hard for the kids.
I think Dr.Walters would be a splendid superintendent, but he does not suffer fools. I cannot imagine him working with the same dynamic that currently surrounds the superintendent's office. I would certainly believe that he would ask fro resignations and throw out numerous initiatives that have nothing to do with how we educate our kids, like RISE for instance.
There is also an IB magazine subscription that contains assistance and topics relevant to those who teach these courses.
Can you share the name of IB magazine which help in teaching these courses.
IBDP Programme
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