From the PG:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/12016/1203817-53.stm
The article describes the change as phasing out dual tracks (PSP and mainstream) leaving just CAS and PSP. Whatever the tracks are called, a more accurate description would be that the CAS/ PSP/ mainstream tracks are being changed to two levels, an regular level that blends mainstream and PSP students and an honors level that blends CAS and PSP students.
A change that the article for some reason fails to mention is that CAS classes will not be limited to 20 students. Instead of just looking the other way when classes exceed 20 students, PPS has come up with the justification that the regulations merely limit gifted classes to "20 gifted students"- meaning that the district can add to the 20 students identified as gifted. So, according to PPS, a class of 21 gifted students would not be permitted, but a class of 20 gifted students and 10 students not identified as gifted is fine. The overall goal for HS class size is 30 students.
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22 comments:
Our family moved to Pittsburgh for the CAS program. That wouldn't happen now.
Begs the question: What about AP? And, what about I.B.?
IB 9/10 already has just two levels, no mainstream. Does IB 11/12 have an honors and regular level as well? AP would be the "honors" level in the other non IB schools.
Re letting in non-gifted students into CAS classes, I really don't have a problem with this. I've taught CAS classes and trust me, the label "gifted" in no way guarantees "hard working" or "well behaved." Non-gifted students have to meet -- and keep to -- decently rigorous standards to be in a CAS class, including their grades, attendance and BEHAVIOR. This policy is a good policy as long as the standards (for behavior in particular) are enforced by ADMINISTRATORS, which so far they have been. Nothing is perfect, but in general this is a good move.
PSP classes have become a joke over the years. Many of them are no different than mainstream. It's good to have options for kids who are hard working but not necessarily (classified/labeled as) gifted.
IB classes are considered pretty darn rigorous already so there is no CAS or honors equivalent. AP classes have usually been pretty egalitarian like IB: you didn't have to be gifted but you had to be willing to work your tail off. Having worked in that situation before, I'd choose a dozen hard working non-gifted kids over 14 "gifted" but lazy or noncompliant kids.
Oh, and if anyone wants to use the watered down nature of the IB classes presently, I'd argue again that this initiative needs to be supported by the building administrator for it to work. Should have mentioned that.
The only way to make IB classes work for anyone with a 2.5 GPA is to water them down. And what choice does the building administrator have when there are no other classes for students to go to, and enrollment needs to be kept up?
Anonymous 5:30, you make a good point. But when the district originally planned an "all IB" school this issue was brought up over and over again. Belfield folks looked at us like we were racist elitists.
The Schenley staff had been charged with increasing the numbers of IB students, both generally and for African American students, and they were making progress on this with everything fell apart and the district changed directions and went to the present concept.
An all IB school COULD work, but the district would have the bite the bullet for the first few years and weed out the students who don't want to be there or truly can't handle the workload. The teachers have pushed this over and over and over again. So it's watered down because the administration doesn't have the guts to allow the classes to be what they need to be -- challenging and open only to students who want to be there and can handle the work.
Word is that there is a lot of weeding going on- is it true that about 40% of 8th graders were not invited to continue with the IB program? Even more than weeding, more talent needs to be developed in advance- starting with first grade. Short of that, under the old system students could at least continue with International Studies non-IB or partly IB.
It's just a lot easier to announce that everyone's in IB now than it is to do the hard work for 8 years to make that a reality.
"is it true that about 40% of 8th graders were not invited to continue with the IB program?"
Well, it's true that a lot of last year's 8th grade didn't stick around for 9th grade. I'd guess that maybe 1/3 to 1/2 OF those who left were out on grades/test scores (you have to "re-apply" for the magnet at 9th grade still, I believe.
A large group of kids also left because their parents felt that they'd get more rigorous classes with more interested students in them at Allderdice or private schools.
At least they are a little ahead of the planned changes there.
I do agree that ANY kid should be allowed into any high level, rigorous class s/he wants and is at least minimally prepared for AND that any kid, labeled gifted or not should be kicked out of a high level class due to behavior.
It's the changing of teaching, assessment, and pacing that is going to be the problem. If kids "can't" get low grades...
Recruitment and retention for an only I.B. School needs to be aggressive.
There are heavy decisions for 5th graders, 8th graders and many other weeks in between those two major milestones when it comes to school choices for a student and a family.
Lots of help and honesty need to be dished out by community voices and administration folks too.
"Our family moved to Pittsburgh for the CAS program. That wouldn't happen now."
January 16, 2012 11:58 AM
Why? There is still going to be a CAS program.
Planned changes in class size alone are probably enough to make people think twice, whatever the program.
CAS in which class sizes could range right up to the (bad for any size class) 36 -- with only 20 gifted is not the same offering.
Classes in which teachers may be pressured to not give out lower grades, especially when there is only one "level" below that class is not the same offering.
To parents and students already here, it's probably better to just see how things work out. But to someone considering moving in? I'd wait too. Give it a couple of years and see what happens.
It may all work out fine, I certainly hope it does. But, if it's implemented and enforced in the way other changes have been, well, then I'm not as optimistic.
If there were any one change I'd like to see it would be administrators (especially PELAs) taking control of the behavior in their schools. Changing from a situation where kids can push and push and never find a limit to a clearer situation with quick and appropriate consequences would do a lot more good in the district. Kids know when they have hit a limit, but in some schools there don't seem to be any. Well, that's not true, there are lots of "limits set" on the teachers.
Some kids will be successful no matter what kind of class or size of the class. Other kids might need the security of being in a smaller sized class in order for the greatness to be drawn out of them by both teachers and like-minded fellow studens. 30 kids in any class is too many to connect with on any regular basis by even the most effective teacher.
Here's what The Eagle had to say about combining PSP and CAS:
http://www.obamaeagle.org/in-depth/2011/04/14/to-combine-or-not-combine-no-boundaries-between-cas-psp-students-in-ibdp/
Having taught all levels (CAS to inclusion)my big problem with combining CAS with others is this: It is a slippery slope. Once the door is opened, then any student with a recommendation and a signed contract can enter these classes. What about the middle school teacher who recommends a student without fully knowing the rigors of a 9th grade CAS class? What if, despite the contract, the student does not live up to expectations? Will they be removed as soon as this is evident, or will they be allowed to continue with the class with the possibility that it will slow the pace of learning?
I have often thought that there have been a few of my PSP kids each year that would benefit from the challenge of CAS. It is not necessarily the mixing of programs that I have issue with. It is the potential for abuse. What administrator is going to look a parent in the eye and tell them that their child is unable to succeed in a CAS environment? Very few.
CAS is one of the few programs left in the district that uses a traditional curriculum that prepares our kids for college. If we begin to add students that aren't ready, and then are pressured to slow down, what do we have? I agree that in the beginning the students chosen will be ready. After a year or two? Not so much.
If a good portion of PSP is NOT moved into PFS, it would leave a really wide range in the non-"CAS" level classes- probably too wide to serve those students well. There was most likely a reason for creating 3 levels in the first place. Ideal would probably be IB/AP/CAS with standards for pace and content strictly met, a strong PSP program, and mainstream geared toward helping students to move up.
Re: Anon 4:36 "If there were any one change I'd like to see it would be administrators (especially PELAs) taking control of the behavior in their schools."
- Behavior is the number one topic that comes up in conversations w/ parents who are otherwise not very involved in PPS issues. Especially behavior at the middle school/ 6-8 grade level, magnet or not.
I think the problem is that the public and the teachers have lost all faith in adminsitrators-- the behavior issue of no consequences, the fiasco at Westinghouse-- these things mean that the whole CAS change worries people. Again, in other districts, students who want to take AP can-- some never designated as "gifted" and they went on to achieve at major uiniversities- CMU, Johns Hopkins etc. But ANY change now scares people-- thank you Broad folk!
"Again, in other districts, students who want to take AP can"
That was (and is) true here. AP doesn't require a gifted label, never has (neither does IB). It does, of course, require that the HS offer AP classes, but that's true of CAS classes, too.
Comments are continually made about ineffective discipline in schools particularly led by a PELA principal. Maybe the question that needs to be answered is, "What exactly did the PELA's learn regarding the process in creating a safe learning environment while they were being indoctrinated in the "PELA Way of Thinking?" If one were to investigate their year long experience, you may find that PELA's are executing school district discipline policies and practices as expected by Central Office staff. Just as evidence is being collected on teachers, so is evidence collected on principals via PULSE which has a direct correlation to their effectiveness rating and bonus. Could a lack of consequences for inappropriate student behavior be linked to the demands of Assistant Superintendents for principals to limit the use of out of school suspensions or citations issued by School Police? One only needs to look at the collective experience of Central Office Administrators as an actual principal. Lane - none. French - 1 year at Mifflin K-8, Lippert - 1 year at Allegheny 6-8, Rudiak - 13 years at Phillips Elem which is shall we say a non-challenging PPS, May-Stein - 1st year Assistant Superintendent approximately 8 years at Colfax K-8 another non-challenging PPS and Otuwa- an experienced elementary principal in the state of Georgia. Could it be that our Central Office Administrators lack a collective "hands on" experience as a principal in a challenging urban school? Thinking out loud.
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